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Mule
March 8th, 2011, 15:37
The 2009 IRC states:
R314.3.1 Alterations, repairs and additions. When alterations,
repairs or additions requiring a permit occur, or when
one or more sleeping rooms are added or created in existing
dwellings, the individual dwelling unit shall be equipped with
smoke alarms located as required for new dwellings.

Exceptions:
1. Work involving the exterior surfaces of dwellings,
such as the replacement of roofing or siding, or the
addition or replacement of windows or doors, or the
addition of a porch or deck, are exempt from the
requirements of this section.

2. Installation, alteration or repairs of plumbing or
mechanical systems are exempt from the requirements
of this section.

The requirement of a permit kicks in the requirement of CM alarms if the existing structure has an attached garage OR has fuel fired appliances and SD's.

SO this small addition of a sun room that started out with just one circuit for lights and outlets now requires installation of hardwired SD's to current code, one inside every bedroom and centrally located outside of the bedrooms, PLUS CM alarms in the vicinity of the bedrooms.

Now the question. On exception 1 would you require SD per the code AND CM alarms when a Sun Room is being constructed?

We are saying yes....It is an enclosed addition with windows and doors.

mtlogcabin
March 8th, 2011, 15:46
Now the question. On exception 1 would you require SD per the code AND CM alarms when a Sun Room is being constructed?

We are saying yes....It is an enclosed addition with windows and doors.

:agree........................

RJJ
March 8th, 2011, 15:52
YA! YA! I agree.

pwood
March 8th, 2011, 16:06
so do i, but the fruit and nut state deleted that exception.

rktect 1
March 8th, 2011, 16:07
It was worse in the 2006 codes.

But yes, a sunroom (addition) would and has had me tell homeowners to upgrade the entire house.

brudgers
March 8th, 2011, 16:50
Smoke alarms located as required for new dwellings

There is nothing about CM detectors.

And there is nothing about the installation being per the requirements of new construction.

Battery operated smoke detectors can be placed at the required locations and meet the letter of the code.

But I can understand how actually reading the code is not as much fun as jumping to conclusions and making homeowners dance for one's amusement.

Mule
March 8th, 2011, 16:58
There is nothing about CM detectors.

And there is nothing about the installation being per the requirements of new construction.

Battery operated smoke detectors can be placed at the required locations and meet the letter of the code.

But I can understand how actually reading the code is not as much fun as jumping to conclusions and making homeowners dance for one's amusement.

The only way you can use battery operated smokes is if you have to tear into a wall to provide interlocking of the smokes. If there is an attic or basement then they must be hardwired.

R314.4 Power source. Smoke alarms shall receive their primary
power from the building wiring when such wiring is
served from a commercial source, and when primary power is
interrupted, shall receive power from a battery.Wiring shall be
permanent and without a disconnecting switch other than those
required for overcurrent protection. Smoke alarms shall be
interconnected.
Exceptions:
1. Smoke alarms shall be permitted to be battery operated
when installed in buildings without commercial
power.
2. Interconnection and hard-wiring of smoke alarms in
existing areas shall not be required where the alterations
or repairs do not result in the removal of interior
wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure,
unless there is an attic, crawl space or basement available
which could provide access for hard wiring and
interconnection without the removal of interior finishes.


and yes there are requirements for CM's.
R315.2 Where required in existing dwellings. Where work
requiring a permit occurs in existing dwellings that have
attached garages or in existing dwellings within which
fuel-fired appliances exist, carbon monoxide alarms shall be
provided in accordance with Section R315.1.

rktect 1
March 8th, 2011, 17:01
That isn't what my 2006 building code shows. Battery operated only works if no commercial power.

And the state requires the CM detector.

brudgers
March 8th, 2011, 21:51
From R313.3 Smoke alarms shall be permitted to be battery operated when installed in buildings without commercial power or in buildings that undergo alterations repairs or additions regulated by Section R313.2.1.

JBI
March 8th, 2011, 22:17
R313.2.1 Design and installation. Automatic residential fire sprinkler systems shall be designed and installed in accordance with Section P2904 or NFPA 13D.
"I'll show that darned Code Official! Thinks he can make ME put in hard-wired smoke detectors, does he? I'll just put in a sprinkler system instead! That'll show HIM a thing or two." Good call Ben! LOL

brudgers
March 8th, 2011, 23:58
Come back to the issue.

Requiring hardwired smoke alarms when someone screens in a porch is asinine.

Francis Vineyard
March 9th, 2011, 05:16
Come back to the issue.

Requiring hardwired smoke alarms when someone screens in a porch is asinine.

Agreed, "or the addition of windows . . . or the addition of a porch"; sprinklers required on alterations, repairs and additions might be next.

steveray
March 9th, 2011, 08:10
We kinda follow Brudgers approach...(with a little less drama) new habitable space, 3-season, living type space...yes,...decks and unenclosed porches no...interior remodel, yes...CT pushes the locations....but not the hardwiring (fishing of wiring) if it would be a large expense compared to the job cost....

rktect 1
March 9th, 2011, 09:07
From R313.3 Smoke alarms shall be permitted to be battery operated when installed in buildings without commercial power or in buildings that undergo alterations repairs or additions regulated by Section R313.2.1.




EXACTLY. So now go read R313.2.1 and in this section, where you can not get access into the crawl or attic, in those places required to have smoke detectors, you can put in battery operated smoke detectors.

rktect 1
March 9th, 2011, 09:08
Come back to the issue.

Requiring hardwired smoke alarms when someone screens in a porch is asinine.

I agree. And when this village amends this section of the code, or ICC changes its mind, I will follow it to the letter. Until then, I enforce this code section, as it is written.

Mule
March 9th, 2011, 14:09
Come back to the issue.

Requiring hardwired smoke alarms when someone screens in a porch is asinine.

I agree. However in my opinion by screening in a porch that would not initiate the requirements. See Exception 1 of R314.3.1.

Now if you make that porch a room then yes you would need to meet the requirements of the 2009 IRC. You have to look at emergency egress (enclosure blocking bedroom egress windows), electrical and other life health safety issues. And of course....is the addition "GREEN"?

Yankee
March 9th, 2011, 19:18
EXACTLY. So now go read R313.2.1 and in this section, where you can not get access into the crawl or attic, in those places required to have smoke detectors, you can put in battery operated smoke detectors. You can snake building power off of an existing circuit in the bedroom up to 4" below ceiling without disrupting the finish material, so your alarm will be hardwired. Then you can use wireless technology for the "interconnected" part. The "interconnected" is the difficulty with wiring the units together in a renovation without attic space.

peach
March 9th, 2011, 20:15
stupid requirement, maybe... Code.. well.. yes.

The only place you may be able to wiggle out of hardwired smoke detectors is the main level of a house (which is probably where the kitchen is)..

Don't know about you.. with the way I cook... that's the most likely place for a fire/smoldering issues to occur (just did hydro inspection at a senior living facility - the resident of one unit was no where to be found.. but something was cooking on the stove). Contractor turned the stove off.. just sayin'

pwood
March 10th, 2011, 11:14
stupid ,stupid, stupid! permit for $1,200 worth the roof covering damage and i informed the roofer of the co and smoke alarm requirement. lots of insults and expletives later i told him to write his legislatures and i'm only serving him up the plate of $hit i was handed. sucks to be me sometimes! thanks icc and california building standards commission:mrgreen:

Francis Vineyard
March 10th, 2011, 17:28
told him to write his legislatures

Good Advice, Virginia deleted Sections R314.3.1 & R315.2.

Yankee
March 10th, 2011, 19:13
I can't think of anything I would wish for more than to have every house outfitted with interconnected hard-wired alarms. . . . I don't get it. . .

Yikes
March 10th, 2011, 19:23
Slightly off-topic: I see these combination smoke + carbon monoxide detectors mounted within 12" of the ceiling. I thought that carbon monoxide is heavier than air, and will collect near the floor. In fact, the old carbon monoxide-only detectors had instructions that said it must be mounted low in the room. How can these smoke+ CM combo units be effective in detecting carbon monoxide?

mark handler
March 10th, 2011, 19:45
In fact, the old carbon monoxide-only detectors had instructions that said it must be mounted low in the room. How can these smoke+ CM combo units be effective in detecting carbon monoxide?

WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS
http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?3695-Carbon-Monoxide-detector-locations&highlight=DETECTOR

TJacobs
March 11th, 2011, 10:12
Good Advice, Virginia deleted Sections R314.3.1 & R315.2.
Did Virginia mandate sprinklers or delete those too?

Francis Vineyard
March 12th, 2011, 14:02
Yes, Virginia is one of the 7 states and counting that deleted the mandatory sprinkler; it's optional. I've searched but have not inquired as to the reason; statistical evidence do not support and justify the added exponential cost.