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Thread: NFPA 13 or 13R?

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    NFPA 13 or 13R?

    I've got a 4-story Holiday Inn Express submitted for review with over 50% of the ground floor as A3 occupancy (meeting/banquet rooms, indoor pool, breakfast area, lobby, etc.) The hotel has approx 100 rooms with rooms on the remainder of the 1st floor, as well as all of the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th floors.

    Architect is proposing an NFPA 13R system for the whole building... I countered with a full 13 system since 903.3.1.2 doesn't address A occupancies.

    Opinions?
    Last edited by vegas paul; August 26th, 2010 at 14:06.

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    Sawhorse mtlogcabin's Avatar
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    13R in the sleeping rooms/floors, 13 all other uses/areas. Remember if he is using the sprinklers for an area increase it has to be a full NFPA 13 throughout (506.3 06 ed)
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    I agree with mtlog cabin. Our apartment buildings always have 13 int he leasing offices, commnity rooms, etc.
    In addition to his comment for area increase, you may need a full 13 if you are using sprinklers for a story increase.

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    What about the concealed spaces above the 4th floor? Does the fact that the 4th floor have only guest rooms matter?

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    Agree w/ mtlogcabin. I just had the same building go up here, except that there were no sleeping rooms on the 1st floor. It was a Holiday Inn, without the "Express". The 1st floor was all A-2, and was fully sprinklered per 13. the upper floors were 13R. I wasn't the "fire inspector" on the project, but we worked together alot on the bulding.

    Hold them to both, IMHO.

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    Sawhorse TJacobs's Avatar
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    The attic on a 13R does not need to be sprinklered, so if they qualify for 13R on the upper floor, no attic sprinklers.
    Jake

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    In our case they sprinklered the attic, and then did away with the draftstopping, per 2006 IBC 717.4.2 #4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glennman CBO View Post
    In our case they sprinklered the attic, and then did away with the draftstopping, per 2006 IBC 717.4.2 #4.
    same here!

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    I believe you'll find that 18" concealed spaces require sprinklers using either 13 or 13R... which means you sprinkle concealed combustible floor ceiling areas too.
    (PE)ach
    some days are just that..

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    Sawhorse hlfireinspector's Avatar
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    Same here "B Western" sprinkler floor/ceiling void /had no attic flat roof. If flat roof don't forget stair to roof and roof connection on standpipe.

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    Moderator FM William Burns's Avatar
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    Agree with others Combo 13/13R. Also make sure if they need a pump for the 4th floor it's a listed one with all the trim and alarms to the FACP. They got mad at me when I pointed that out. BTW...Holiday Inn is taking back the "express" in our region and they are all going over face lifts
    Please pray for Daddy-O (Wilson) and his family!

    "fire suppression is a failure in prevention" & "Practice fire safety, the life saved may be your own"


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    FM William Burns - everytime I read your posts, I hear them with Jim Carrey's voice and maniacal laugh in my head! Does that happen to anyone else out there?

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    Yikes,

    Actually your post makes me feel better, I thought I was the only one hearing voices in my head.
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    Moderator FM William Burns's Avatar
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    Would you like the profile picture of me kissing the deer? Imagine what your minds would do with that
    Please pray for Daddy-O (Wilson) and his family!

    "fire suppression is a failure in prevention" & "Practice fire safety, the life saved may be your own"


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    I say go for it FM WB. If we can't make fun of ourselves and our friends who can we make fun of?
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    Moderator FM William Burns's Avatar
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    Got that right TexT
    Please pray for Daddy-O (Wilson) and his family!

    "fire suppression is a failure in prevention" & "Practice fire safety, the life saved may be your own"


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    Administrator RJJ's Avatar
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    Agree with the combo! Also with peach on the concealed space 18". If its not there then no issue.

    Well! Guys You all must be in dream world! I know FM and he doesn't look or sound like what you are thinking! OH YA kissing deer! That's 4 legged!

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    When things start going crazy around here I click onto you tube on FM Bill and laugh my head off (at home of course). I think they should let us go into the you tube skit as required learing here at work!

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    Should be a true 13 system with applications of 13 being used for the areas containing sleeping rooms....... See appendix A1.1.

    It is recognized that an occupancy incidental to the operations of the residential occupancy might exist within that residential occupancy. Such incidental occupancy would be considered part of the predominant (residential) occupancy and subject to the provisions of the predominant (residential) occupancy by 6.1.14.2 of NFPA 101 and similar provisions in many local building and fire codes. Use of NFPA 13R throughout the entire building in this case is allowed.
    Where buildings are greater than four stories in height, or where buildings are of mixed use where residential is not the predominant occupancy, residential portions of such buildings should be protected with residential or quick-response sprinklers in accordance with 8.4.5 of NFPA 13. Other portions of such buildings should be protected in accordance with NFPA 13. Where buildings of mixed use can be totally separated so that the residential portion is considered a separate building under the local code, NFPA 13R can be used in the residential portion while NFPA 13 is used in the rest of the building. (Examples of incidental accessory occupancies found in NFPA 13R installations can include parking garages/areas, community laundry rooms, clubhouses, exercise facilities, tenant storage, and so forth.)
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