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Thread: Door swing

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    Door swing

    We had always assumed that when room capacity reaches 50 people, the room needs 2 exit doors and the doors must swing out. But, reading between the lines, Section 1008.1.2 says "doors shall swing in the direction of egress travel where serving an occupant load of 50 or more. If the room load is 60, and I have 2 doors, the load on each is 30. Are the doors required to swing out only if there are 2 doors and room capacity is over 100? (Up to the requirement for 3 exits, of course)

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    you were reading it correctly the first time. 50 people = two doors that swing in the direction of egress travel

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    You can have all the doors you want but the total occupant load of the room or building determines all door swings in the means of egress from the room or building. Also, if you provide more egress/exit doors than the minimum, you cannot split the egress using all the provided egress/exits doors. Ex: if you are required two minimum egress/exits and you provide four the egress width can only be based on two.
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    Agree with above, hit 50 OL, doors will swing in the direction of travel.
    Arguing with an inspector is like wrestling with a pig in mud, pretty soon you realize that the pig is enjoying it!

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    Ex: if you are required two minimum egress/exits and you provide four the egress width can only be based on two.
    I am not following you could you explain this more?
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    Code Congress and I think it is the commentary also, told me that to calculate egress width at EXITS or for EXIT ACCESS the width is calculated on the CODE’s minimum required EXITS or EXIT ACCESS even if you provide additional EXITS or EXIT ACCESSES.

    Say you have an occupant load of 600 and you provided 6 separate EXITS or EXIT ACCESS. The Code requires a minimum of three separate EXITS when an occupant load exceeds 500. 600 divided by 3 = 200 occupants per EXIT or EXIT ACCESS. You cannot do 600 divided by 6 = 100 occupants per EXIT or EXIT ACCESS.
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    The Code requires a minimum of three separate EXITS when an occupant load exceeds 500.
    The minimum clear width on an exit door is 32 inches which will accomodate a maximum of 160 people.
    501 OL requires a minumum of 100.2 inches of exit width. Using the minimum 32 inches clear width for each door would require 3.131 doors or 4 doors minimum or 3 doors with a minumum 33.4 inches of clear width.
    You cannot do 600 divided by 6 = 100 occupants per EXIT or EXIT ACCESS.
    When I do a plan review I will take 600 divided by 160= 3.75 doors round up to 4 required. Egress width met, if the install 2 more well great they just reduced the loading at the doors.
    When they submit a Means of Egress plan as required by 107.2.3 I will accept them designating 100 OL exiting each door.
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    Addressing door widths.

    A 36 inch door’s clear width as follows;

    36” door width from rabbet to rabbet of frame.
    <5/8”> door stop depth from rabbet <less>
    <2 ½”> hinge + door thickness from rabbet <less>
    32 7/8” clear width for a 36” door round down to 32”.

    I did the above to illustrate that only a 36” wide door will produce a 32” clear opening.

    32” divide by 0.20 or 0.15. Depending on the occupancy and the use of sprinklers you will use one of the decimal factors. Assembly is 0.20 always for doors and corridors.

    Say it is Business and there is a fire suppression system;
    32” divided by 0.15 = 213.333 round down 213 people per 32” clear opening

    Now a Business without a fire suppression system;
    32” divided by 0.20 = 160 people per 32” clear opening

    600 x 0.20 = 120” of total egress width.
    120” divide by 3 exits = 40” per exit. 40” divided by 32” = 1.25 therefore 2 doors per exit.
    600 x 50% = 300 x 0.20 = 60” required for one exit. 60 divided by 32 = 1.875 therefore 2 doors required for the one EXIT 50% rule.

    Now the total is 6 doors for the EXITS not 4.

    Egress width is calculated using the total occupant load. Your total egress width is then dispersed amount the minimum required EXITS.

    The corridor egress width is as if you put all the occupants in the corridor and divide the occupant load by the number of exits determines the egress corridor width.
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    Sawhorse mtlogcabin's Avatar
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    FYI
    2009 went to .3 for stairs and .2 for all other exit components no credit for sprinklers

    The total width of means of egress in inches (mm) shall not be less than the total occupant load served by the means of egress multiplied by 0.3 inches (7.62 mm) per occupant for stairways and by 0.2 inches (5.08 mm) per occupant for other egress components.
    600 x 0.20 = 120” of total egress width.
    120” divide by 3 exits = 40” per exit. 40” divided by 32” = 1.25 therefore 2 doors per exit.
    600 x 50% = 300 x 0.20 = 60” required for one exit. 60 divided by 32 = 1.875 therefore 2 doors required for the one EXIT 50% rule.
    Are you indicating 3 double doors would be required in lieu of 6 individual 32" clear opening doors located throughout the room?
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    2006 IBC ASSEMBLY Section 1025.2 Exception: In assembly occupancies where there is no well-defined main exit or where multiple main exits are provided, exits shall be permitted to be distributed around the perimeter of the building provided that the total width of egress is not less than 100 percent of the required width.

    I do not know of any other location in the Code that allows the above condition. It appears to only be allowed in Assembly occupancies.

    You can provide larger width exit doors, up to 48” leafs, per door if you do not want to use two 32” clear width doors. The point is you have to have the clear width either using one door leaf or multiple doors leafs at the designated EXITS. But remember each door leaf must be 32" in clear width.
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    The ICC dropped the requirement for the "main exit" to be able to handle 50% of the occupant load for exiting. The main exit is generally the main entrance and us humans and our human nature send most of us back out the same way we came in. (How many of us use the front exit in a large movie theater)?
    (PE)ach
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    Does the code say you have to subtract the door thickness and hinge? I don't see that it must be measured that way in Chapter 10. Is there a code reference can point me to? It makes sense, but I bet this would cause a few disagreements.

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    2003 ICC ANSI - 404.2.2 Clear Width
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    Quote Originally Posted by Examiner View Post
    Addressing door widths.

    A 36 inch door’s clear width as follows;

    36” door width from rabbet to rabbet of frame.
    <5/8”> door stop depth from rabbet <less>
    <2 ½”> hinge + door thickness from rabbet <less>
    32 7/8” clear width for a 36” door round down to 32”.

    I did the above to illustrate that only a 36” wide door will produce a 32” clear opening.
    Why not begin with the 36" width, subtract the 5/8" stop from each side for a clear opening of 34 3/4" and then calculate exit capacity based upon the correct occupant factor? Section 1005.2 says "When fully open, the door shall not project more than 7 inches (178 mm) into the required width". This would seem to indicate that I could calculate the clear opening by subtracting only the stops because it is allowable to have the door project as much as 7" into required width. In your example, you've deducted 2 1/2" for door thickness and hinge, much less than the protrusion that 1005.2 says is ok.
    Last edited by DwightB; August 18th, 2011 at 22:49. Reason: minimize quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by Examiner View Post
    calculate egress width at EXITS or for EXIT ACCESS the width is calculated on the CODE’s minimum required EXITS or EXIT ACCESS even if you provide additional EXITS or EXIT ACCESSES.
    That makes no sense at all. I have a large high school gym in a room that doubles as assembly occupancy, no fixed seating. There is a fixed stage; the open floor not occupied by a fixed platform is 16,943 sf which, at 7 sf/person, gives me a room with 2,420 code capacity, which will never happen, but that's the number I have to work with. It sounds like you're saying that, even though I've provided 6 double doors and a single door, that I have to compute all of the exit capacity through only of the 4 doors that are required by Section 1019.1? I have a sprinkler system, so using .15 per person, 2,420/4= 605 people per exit, then 605 x .15"/person (sprinklered building) = 90.75" exit width for 4 locations? How do I do that, 2 46" leaves? I don't usually see 4' pairs of doors at large capacity rooms. Other inspectors must be allowing to distribute total load among all available exits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peach View Post
    The ICC dropped the requirement for the "main exit" to be able to handle 50% of the occupant load for exiting. The main exit is generally the main entrance and us humans and our human nature send most of us back out the same way we came in. (How many of us use the front exit in a large movie theater)?


    Which code edition???????

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    Quote Originally Posted by DwightB View Post
    Why not begin with the 36" width, subtract the 5/8" stop from each side for a clear opening of 34 3/4" and then calculate exit capacity based upon the correct occupant factor? Section 1005.2 says "When fully open, the door shall not project more than 7 inches (178 mm) into the required width". This would seem to indicate that I could calculate the clear opening by subtracting only the stops because it is allowable to have the door project as much as 7" into required width. In your example, you've deducted 2 1/2" for door thickness and hinge, much less than the protrusion that 1005.2 says is ok.
    I believe 1005.2 is addressing the path of travel in a corridor, or hallway, etc. The ICC/ANSI would not permit a door to only open to 70 degrees and reduce the accessible means of egress by 7 inches. I could be wrong on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cda View Post
    Which code edition???????
    It is still there
    From 2012 IBC
    1028.2 Assembly main exit.
    In a building, room or space used for assembly purposes that has an occupant load of greater than 300 and is provided with a main exit, the main exit shall be of sufficient width to accommodate not less than one-half of the occupant load, but such width shall not be less than the total required width of all means of egress leading to the exit. Where the building is classified as a Group A occupancy, the main exit shall front on at least one street or an unoccupied space of not less than 10 feet (3048 mm) in width that adjoins a street or public way. In a building, room or space used for assembly purposes where there is no well-defined main exit or where multiple main exits are provided, exits shall be permitted to be distributed around the perimeter of the building provided that the total width of egress is not less than 100 percent of the required width.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Examiner View Post
    Also, if you provide more egress/exit doors than the minimum, you cannot split the egress using all the provided egress/exits doors. Ex: if you are required two minimum egress/exits and you provide four the egress width can only be based on two.
    I dont see how you get there. We do all the time
    With large buildings the largest minimum required number by occupant load is 4 but by travel distance or building arrangement you can end up with any number of required exits.
    Example--Take a 900 x 100 ft strip shopping center building with 30-3000 sq ft use group M tenants the 3000 occupant load would require 4 exits for buildnig as a whole, but each 30 x 100 = 3000 sq ft tenant gets 2 exits one front one rear.
    Now take the same building and remove the tenant separation walls to create one big box tenant, are you saying we would now need to figure it based on 4 exits each of which would need to be 150 inches wide?
    Code requires that the total width of the means of egress shall be used.

    IBC 2009
    "SECTION 1005 EGRESS WIDTH
    1005.1 Minimum required egress width. The means of egress width shall not be less than required by this section. The total width of means of egress in inches (mm) shall not be less than the total occupant load served by the means of egress multiplied by 0.3 inch (7.62 mm) per occupant for stairways and by 0.2 inch (5.08 mm) per occupant for other egress components. The width shall not be less than specified elsewhere in this code. Multiple means of egress shall be sized such that the loss of any one means of egress shall not reduce the available capacity to less than 50 percent of the required capacity. The maximum capacity required from any story of a building shall be maintained to the termination of the means of egress.

    Exception: Means of egress complying with Section 1028."

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    Here is our CT amendment.....we need 2/3 out the main.......

    (Amd) 1024.2 Assembly main exit. Group A occupancies that have an occupant load of greater than 300 shall be provided with a main entrance that is also the main exit. In other Group A occupancies that have a single main entrance, such main entrance shall also be the main exit. The main entrance/exit shall be of sufficient width to accommodate not less than two-thirds of the occupant load, but such width shall not be less than the total required width of all means of egress leading to the exit. Where the building is classified as a Group A occupancy, the main exit shall front on at least one street or on an unoccupied space of not less than 10 feet in width that adjoins a street or public way.
    Exception: In assembly occupancies where there is no well-defined main entrance and main exit or where multiple main entrances and main exits are provided, exits shall be permitted to be distributed around the perimeter of the building or space containing the assembly occupancy, provided that the total width of egress is not less than 100 per cent of the required width.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    It is still there
    From 2012 IBC
    1028.2 Assembly main exit.
    In a building, room or space used for assembly purposes that has an occupant load of greater than 300 and is provided with a main exit, the main exit shall be of sufficient width to accommodate not less than one-half of the occupant load, but such width shall not be less than the total required width of all means of egress leading to the exit. Where the building is classified as a Group A occupancy, the main exit shall front on at least one street or an unoccupied space of not less than 10 feet (3048 mm) in width that adjoins a street or public way. In a building, room or space used for assembly purposes where there is no well-defined main exit or where multiple main exits are provided, exits shall be permitted to be distributed around the perimeter of the building provided that the total width of egress is not less than 100 percent of the required width.
    Please support Jim Brown, Deputy Building Official from Gillette, Wyoming for ICC Board of Directors.
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