Custom Search
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: R2 vs R3 occupancy

  1. #1
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts

    R2 vs R3 occupancy

    I have a 22 unit apartment complex.
    There are 8 separate buildings.
    3 of the buildings each have 4 individual 1 bedroom apartments. This would clearly make them R2.
    The remaining 5 only have 2 individual apartments (2 and 3 bedrooms units).

    Are those considered R3 because they "do not contain more than 2 dwelling units".
    Or are they still considered R2 beacuse R2 specifically refers to "apartment houses" and R3 refers to "not classified as ....R2...."

    I think they are all R2.
    But then again I may be wrong.
    "You can have my red pen when you pry it from my cold dead hands."
    --Anonymous Plans Examiner

  2. #2
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Mid West
    Posts
    1,280
    Thanks
    85
    Thanked 107 Times in 95 Posts
    Are the five designed like a duplex?

  3. #3
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts
    Yes, 5 separate buildings with 2 side by side apartments in each building.
    "You can have my red pen when you pry it from my cold dead hands."
    --Anonymous Plans Examiner

  4. #4
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Mid West
    Posts
    1,280
    Thanks
    85
    Thanked 107 Times in 95 Posts
    If they were built as duplex even if the property owner is calling them apartments for rent I wouldn't think that makes them R-2's.

  5. #5
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    562
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 36 Times in 31 Posts
    What they are, primarily depends on how they are designed and which code was used for design. The two-unit buildings certainly could have been designed using the IRC. This would make them detached two-unit dwellings, not R-3's.

    It is possible that the four unit buildings could be desinged using the IRC also, but then they would need to qualify as townhouses. No likely for 1-unit dwellings. If designed as townhouses using the IRC, they would need to provide two one-hour walls between each of the units. Once again, townhouses are not R-3, they are townhouses.

    If they design using only one-hour walls between units, the design would be governed by the IBC.

  6. #6
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Mid West
    Posts
    1,280
    Thanks
    85
    Thanked 107 Times in 95 Posts
    with the Big Mac.

  7. #7
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    6,961
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 400 Times in 371 Posts
    didn't we just have this cussion??


    SECTION 302
    CLASSIFICATION
    302.1 Gen eral. Structures or portions of structures shall be
    classified with respect to occupancy in one or more of the
    groups listed below. Structures with multiple uses shall be classified
    according to Section 302.3. Where a structure is proposed
    for a purpose which is not specifically provided for in
    this code, such structure shall be classified in the group which
    the occupancy most nearly resembles, according to the fire
    safety and relative hazard involved.



    http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showt...tial-structure

  8. #8
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cda View Post
    didn't we just have this cussion??


    SECTION 302
    CLASSIFICATION
    302.1 Gen eral. Structures or portions of structures shall be
    classified with respect to occupancy in one or more of the
    groups listed below. Structures with multiple uses shall be classified
    according to Section 302.3. Where a structure is proposed
    for a purpose which is not specifically provided for in
    this code, such structure shall be classified in the group which
    the occupancy most nearly resembles, according to the fire
    safety and relative hazard involved.



    http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showt...tial-structure
    I started that last thread about a different project.

    If you look at the buildings with 2 dwellings, they could, by themselves, be considered "2 family dwellings" or an R3, except that the R3 language specifically refers to only those R occupancies that do not fit in to any of the other catagories.

    That is why I feel they would be R2, I just wanted to bounce that off everyone.

    Also, that last discussion had a fairly divided opinion on the classificaiton.
    "You can have my red pen when you pry it from my cold dead hands."
    --Anonymous Plans Examiner

  9. #9
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    6,961
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 400 Times in 371 Posts
    I think though it gets lost in

    occupancy type vs do you build to IBC or IRC

    is it a motel or is it a house

  10. #10
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    alabama
    Posts
    3,709
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 212 Times in 182 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by righter101 View Post
    That is why I feel they would be R2, I just wanted to bounce that off everyone.
    It's coming back as a two-family dwelling, not an R2.

  11. #11
    Sawhorse mtlogcabin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Big Sky Country
    Posts
    4,549
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 568 Times in 449 Posts
    I have a 22 unit apartment complex.
    There are 8 separate buildings.
    IBC will require "B" type accessible units
    IRC will require nothing accessible

    No matter what occupany group you decide to classify them in or what code is used I believe Fair Housing will still be applicable if it is one complex.
    CYA and advise the owner/designer

  12. #12
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Metro Atlanta
    Posts
    267
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts
    We recently issued 5 permits for a very similar group of buildings with two rental units apiece. IRC.

    GPE

  13. #13
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts
    For the sake of arguement, lets say this is a new permit, not an existing facility. If they are proposing 30 buildings that have 2 units (2 and 3 bedroom apts.) and then 40 buildings that have 4 units but are only 1 bedroom units, you believe that the 30 buildings can be built under the IRC, and the 40 buildings would need to be built under the IBC as R2's.

    I guess I get confused when the IBC says the # of accessible units must be distributed amongst the various "types" of units. How could you require one of the IRC structures to provide accessibility? Just tell the disabled folks that they are limited to 1 bedroom apartments because Brugers says so? Shouldn't we apply the most restrictive code when a conflict exists?

    Seems like a flaw in the book, not my reading of it, but......
    "You can have my red pen when you pry it from my cold dead hands."
    --Anonymous Plans Examiner

  14. #14
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    alabama
    Posts
    3,709
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 212 Times in 182 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by righter101 View Post
    For the sake of arguement, lets say this is a new permit, not an existing facility. If they are proposing 30 buildings that have 2 units (2 and 3 bedroom apts.) and then 40 buildings that have 4 units but are only 1 bedroom units, you believe that the 30 buildings can be built under the IRC, and the 40 buildings would need to be built under the IBC as R2's. I guess I get confused when the IBC says the # of accessible units must be distributed amongst the various "types" of units. How could you require one of the IRC structures to provide accessibility? Just tell the disabled folks that they are limited to 1 bedroom apartments because Brugers says so? Shouldn't we apply the most restrictive code when a conflict exists? Seems like a flaw in the book, not my reading of it, but......
    The accessibility requirements of the IBC apply to buildings or structures constructed under the IBC.

    Buildings or structures constructed under the IRC are outside it's scope.

    FHA has its own scope, as does the ADA.

    The Owner is responsible for complying with both in so far as the project falls within their scope.

    Even though the building department is not necessarily responsible for enforcing them.

    If you need clarification, I recommend sitting down with your jurisdiction's attorney and asking for her legal opinion.

    BTW, discriminating against the disabled is the Owner's job, not yours.

  15. #15
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by brudgers View Post
    The accessibility requirements of the IBC apply to buildings or structures constructed under the IBC.

    Buildings or structures constructed under the IRC are outside it's scope.

    FHA has its own scope, as does the ADA.

    The Owner is responsible for complying with both in so far as the project falls within their scope.

    Even though the building department is not necessarily responsible for enforcing them.

    If you need clarification, I recommend sitting down with your jurisdiction's attorney and asking for her legal opinion.

    BTW, discriminating against the disabled is the Owner's job, not yours.
    Point taken. Thank you for laying that out for me.
    "You can have my red pen when you pry it from my cold dead hands."
    --Anonymous Plans Examiner

  16. #16
    Sawhorse
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    metro DC
    Posts
    2,811
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts
    IRC buildings, not IBC. Doesn't matter if they are meant for rental or ownership.

    We don't enforce Fair Housing (federal government), however, it's maybe not a bad idea to tell them that compliance with the IRC isn't safe harbor for ADA compliance.
    (PE)ach
    some days are just that..

Bookmarks


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •