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Thread: Convection oven under Type I hood

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    Convection oven under Type I hood

    State Inspector and local inspector have a disagreement regarding equipment being placed under a Type I hood. One inspector wants any equipment placed under the hood to be provided with noozle protection regardless of type of food prepared. The other says that only those appliances that are producing grease laden vapor require noozle protection, otherwise the Type I hood serves the purpose of a Typpe II hood for heat and steam. Kind of a dual purpose hood. What is the opinion of protecting equipment that is placed under a Type I hood? Thanks

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    Where does the convection oven exhaust and what type of foods are being prepared in said oven? Generally speaking, the ovens typically do not require fire suppression unless it is open to the atmosphere....i.e. chain drive oven that is open
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    Administrator fatboy's Avatar
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    I would side with, if the equipment itself wouldn't require a Type I hood, then the additional protection shouldn't be required. JMHO
    Arguing with an inspector is like wrestling with a pig in mud, pretty soon you realize that the pig is enjoying it!

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    I agree with the bolded quote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector 102 View Post
    State Inspector and local inspector have a disagreement regarding equipment being placed under a Type I hood. One inspector wants any equipment placed under the hood to be provided with noozle protection regardless of type of food prepared. The other says that only those appliances that are producing grease laden vapor require noozle protection, otherwise the Type I hood serves the purpose of a Typpe II hood for heat and steam. Kind of a dual purpose hood. What is the opinion of protecting equipment that is placed under a Type I hood? Thanks
    Jake

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    Sawhorse mark handler's Avatar
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    I agree, A Type I hood is for grease laden vapor not for heat and steam.
    What does the oven Manufacturer recomend?
    “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”― Mark Twain

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    No problem

    Have inspector that wants the protection provide references requiring it!!!!!

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    Sawhorse JBI's Avatar
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    507.2.2 exception 3 exempts a single light duty convection oven from hood requirements altogether. Move it out from under the hood.

    Lacking specific code text that states it, my opinion would be not to mix appliances under the hood anyway (that is, if it requires a type 1 hood, put it under a type one hood; if it requires a type 2 hood, put it under a type 2 hood. Problem solved).


    507.2.2 Type II hoods.

    Type II hoods shall be installed where cooking or dishwashing appliances produce heat, steam, or products of combustion and do not produce grease or smoke, such as steamers, kettles, pasta cookers and dishwashing machines.

    Exceptions:
    1. Under-counter-type commercial dishwashing machines.2. A Type II hood is not required for dishwashers and potwashers that are provided with heat and water vapor exhaust systems that are supplied by the appliance manufacturer and are installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.3. A single light-duty electric convection, bread, retherm or microwave oven. The additional heat and moisture loads generated by such appliances shall be accounted for in the design of the HVAC system.4. A Type II hood is not required for the following electrically heated appliances: toasters, steam tables, popcorn poppers, hot dog cookers, coffee makers, rice cookers, egg cookers, holding/warming ovens. The additional heat and moisture loads generated by such appliances shall be accounted for in the design of the HVAC system.
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    Sawhorse JBI's Avatar
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    507.2.2 exception 3 exempts a single light duty convection oven from hood requirements altogether. Move it out from under the hood.

    Lacking specific code text that states it, my opinion would be not to mix appliances under the hood anyway (that is, if it requires a type 1 hood, put it under a type one hood; if it requires a type 2 hood, put it under a type 2 hood. Problem solved).


    507.2.2 Type II hoods.

    Type II hoods shall be installed where cooking or dishwashing appliances produce heat, steam, or products of combustion and do not produce grease or smoke, such as steamers, kettles, pasta cookers and dishwashing machines.

    Exceptions:1. Under-counter-type commercial dishwashing machines.

    2. A Type II hood is not required for dishwashers and potwashers that are provided with heat and water vapor exhaust systems that are supplied by the appliance manufacturer and are installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

    3. A single light-duty electric convection, bread, retherm or microwave oven. The additional heat and moisture loads generated by such appliances shall be accounted for in the design of the HVAC system.

    4. A Type II hood is not required for the following electrically heated appliances: toasters, steam tables, popcorn poppers, hot dog cookers, coffee makers, rice cookers, egg cookers, holding/warming ovens. The additional heat and moisture loads generated by such appliances shall be accounted for in the design of the HVAC system.
    Last edited by JBI; August 27th, 2010 at 18:50.
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    Section 509 says fire supression is required only if the appliance require a type I hood. I typically wouldn't require a type one hood over a convection oven, only a type II. Without fire supression, I treat a type I as nothing more than an overbuilt type II.

    BTW, type II requirements have changed a lot in the 2009, basically they are nor required over electric appliances as long as the heat load is accounted for in the HVAC system, plus 100 sq. ft. is added to the fresh air calcs for the kitchen for every appliance not under a hood.

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    I do not know of a fire suppression system mfg who has a listing for oven protection. That said, I protected an oven in a KFC because the owner wanted me to.

    But, if the convection oven is gas fired, the suppression systerm is to shut off the gas supply, if the appliance is under the hood.

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    Update – The state inspector indicated that he wrote the violation based on a third party inspection report. He thought it was NFPA 17A but had no code reference for the deficiencies. He simply stated correct issues to get a clean inspection report. It appears the IBC says to follow the IMC and IFC and the IMC say to follow the IBC and round and round we go. There appears to be no clear answer as to what is allowed under a Type I hood that I have been able to find. Our state amendments to Table 507.2 says that a cooking/warming oven may be placed under a Type I hood, but nothing regarding the fire suppression requirements. The equipment is old enough that I am having difficulty finding any manf. instructions. Still waiting to see who “wins” this argument. I am betting it will be me, since I am stubborn according to my wife.

  12. #12
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    way to go a least there is some commone sense


    will one way to look at it is if it is allowed under a type II then should be allowed under a type I and if i was under a type II and no protection was required then no protection should be required if you stick it under a type I, and also go back to when protection is actualy required per IFC.

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    I am betting I102.

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    Sawhorse TJacobs's Avatar
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    What cda said. The cookline is the owner-operators business. If they want to put Type II appliances under a Type I hood I have no issue with it. Type I appliance under a Type II hood...not approved.
    Jake

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    The fire code says the Type I hood shall be protected. The IMC 507.13 specifically allows for different appliances under one hood. Where any combination of heavy-duty, medium-duty and light-duty cooking appliances are utilized under a single hood, the exhaust rate required by this section for the heaviest duty appliance covered by the hood shall be used for the entire hood.
    2006 IFC 904.2.1 Commercial hood and duct systems.
    Each required commercial kitchen exhaust hood and duct system required by Section 610 to have a Type I hood shall be protected with an approved automatic fire-extinguishing system installed in accordance with this code.
    This seems to indicate the entire Type I hood and all the equipment located under the Type I hood needs be under a fire protection system.

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  16. #16
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    SEC TION 509
    FIRE SUP PRES SION SYS TEMS
    509.1 Where required. Commercial food heat-processing appliances
    required by Section 507.2.1 to have a Type I hood shall
    be provided with an approved automatic fire suppression system complying with the International Building Code and the International Fire Code.

    this is one of those puzzle questions, you have to get all the pieces together to see the big picture

    seems 2.1 says when a type I is needed and 2.2 says indirectly that you cannot put type I stuff under a type II, but seems quiet about type II under type II


    I do not know what the problem is because it goes on everyday!!!!

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    Sawhorse TJacobs's Avatar
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    A Type I hood and duct requires fire suppression of the hood and duct. The cooking equipment under the Type I hood requires protection depending on the appliance. 2 different animals.
    Jake

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    what TJacobs said

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