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Oklahoma Residential Foundations

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  • Oklahoma Residential Foundations

    Here are some pictures of residential foundations in Oklahoma. Does anyone see this type footing and foundations?

    They pour the footing first; and come back and pour the foundation walls;

    (right click on picture to enlarge)



    and,



    Notice that there are no anchor bolts; and, yes this is high winds and tornado alley.

    Then they add fill and pour the slab on ground inside.

    Uncle Bob
    It isn't what we don't know that causes most of our problems; it's what we do know that ain't so.

  • #2
    Reminds me of a time when a seismic retrofit contractor showed me a secret detail. My reaction was that I wish thet would have kept it a secret.

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    • #3
      WOW! Really?
      Admin

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      • #4
        No! Should not have the footing and wall above frost line. Fail them UB:

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        • #5
          RJJ,

          Not my call; I'm retired remember. I was out Sunday, trying to keep from getting rusty; and took a few pictures. I take the pictures so I'm sure I wasn't dreaming. This is all I see here in Oklahoma; and, I've looked in at least ten different cities.

          I thought that perhaps some of you have seen this type of foundation.

          Uncle Bob
          Last edited by Uncle Bob; September 20th, 2010, 08:57.
          It isn't what we don't know that causes most of our problems; it's what we do know that ain't so.

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          • #6
            Maybe trench foundations, formed part above grade???
            Jake

            http://www.nwboca.org

            This response brought to you by one of the paying members of the Building Code Forum.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by RJJ View Post
              No! Should not have the footing and wall above frost line. Fail them UB:
              RJJ, I don't quite understand about the wall having to be below the frostline. Can you expalin a little more?

              UB, I have seen this type of foundation on commercial but not residential. I wonder about load bearing walls and why there isn't a footing/beam under them.

              UB, I thought you went back to work for a city???? You didn't like the way they were running the show? OR was this the more high grass and weeds gig?

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              • #8
                Mule,

                80 %, high grass and weed gig; I'm not quite desperate enough to get back to work, to become a code enforcement "helper".

                "I wonder about load bearing walls and why there isn't a footing/beam under them."

                I have taken pictures before of the interior slab preped for pour; and can't find them; but, they "shovel" out a shallow trench approximately where loadbearing walls might be. You can't go too deep or you will hit a water or sewer line. :roll:

                And, what I've see is all stick framing here (no roof truss systems) so, there are loadbearing walls on the slab.

                Uncle Bob

                It isn't what we don't know that causes most of our problems; it's what we do know that ain't so.

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                • #9
                  Maybe in your area Mule you don't have heavy frost! By placing the foundation wall at grade the wall is subject to frost separating the the wall from the footing. If the wall in UB photos had been monolithic or place below grade then ok. Moisture will collect on the top of the footing and frost will separate the two. Looks to me to be at best 12" of back fill. Maybe that area does not have frost. The lots look to be flat as a pancake so what about drainage.
                  What is the frost depth in Oklahoma UB?

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                  • #10
                    I have done them in two separate pours in the past. We poured the footers with the bottom going below frost line and left rebar sticking up to tie the walls and piers when they were formed and poured and they of course had anchor bolts in them when they were later poured. Would you know any reason that would not meet code?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RJJ View Post
                      Maybe in your area Mule you don't have heavy frost! By placing the foundation wall at grade the wall is subject to frost separating the the wall from the footing. If the wall in UB photos had been monolithic or place below grade then ok. Moisture will collect on the top of the footing and frost will separate the two. Looks to me to be at best 12" of back fill. Maybe that area does not have frost. The lots look to be flat as a pancake so what about drainage.
                      What is the frost depth in Oklahoma UB?
                      rjj,
                      this may be a dumb question, but how do you get the required wood to earth seperation if your cement stem wall is below grade?

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                      • #12
                        Maybe they were going to use Simpson Titen HD or similar???:roll:
                        Jake

                        http://www.nwboca.org

                        This response brought to you by one of the paying members of the Building Code Forum.
                        You can join the paying members and support this forum, for a small donation at
                        http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/payments.php

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                        • #13
                          I really don't see any issue as long as the footing is the correct depth below the frost line for whatever part of Oklahoma this is. However, I would be quite concerned about the lack of footings and/or piers, and/or foundation walls on the interior. The flimsy footings you describe to support bearing walls on the interior of the house make me cringe.

                          As others have said, I see this for commercial construction on a regular basis. RJJ brings up good points about separation between footing and wall, but nonetheless, I've NEVER seen the footing and stem wall poured monolithically.

                          UB: are these foundations routinely designed, signed, and sealed by a PE?

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                          • #14
                            I have taken pictures before of the interior slab preped for pour; and can't find them; but, they "shovel" out a shallow trench approximately where loadbearing walls might be.
                            R403.1.1 Minimum size.
                            Minimum sizes for concrete and masonry footings shall be as set forth in Table R403.1 and Figure R403.1(1). The footing width, W, shall be based on the load-bearing value of the soil in accordance with Table R401.4.1. Spread footings shall be at least 6 inches (152 mm) thick.

                            That would only be a couple of full shovels when you already have a 4" slab. Now anchor bolts are suppose to extend into the foundation 7" then you should have a couple of inches of concrete below the bolt. What is the minimum thickness of a footer? I can find width but not thickness except for the spread footing.

                            Around here it is 12" per local engineer requirement.

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                            • #15
                              The two piece way of foundation wall is pretty common... there SHOULD be dowels from the footing into the wall (or at least some kind of keyway) that holds the two together. If they don't install anchor bolts (or straps) into the wall after they place the concrete, the choices are pretty limited. Our friends at Simpson have invented a retrofit product (also good for seismic and lateral loads)... but the are expensive and hard to install.
                              (PE)ach
                              some days are just that.. :banghd

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