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Thread: Curb Walls

  1. #1
    Sawhorse
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    Curb Walls

    I am looking to find out what the requirements are regarding Garage type
    "curb walls".






    This picture was used in another forum, ...previously submitted by
    Uncle Bob.

    Is the 3.5 inch wide "curb wall / stem wall" allowed in the IRC, or is
    the minimum width of 6 inches required?

    I am looking st Section R404.1.5 in the 2006 IRC. We are on the
    2006 Edition of the I-codes. Please cite any aplicable code
    sections. Thanks!


    .
    Please pray for Wilson ("Daddy-O") and his family!



  2. #2
    Moderator Daddy-0-'s Avatar
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    Can't say that I have seen anything like that here. It may be OK as a stem wall if it has the appropriate upside down "U" rebar and such. I would certainly question the design. What is the big ledge for anyway?
    Now accepting advertising.....

  3. #3
    Sawhorse
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    I'd guess that is a brick/stone veneer ledge
    Highest Regards,

    Alan T. Hendry
    Architect

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    Other than the table for concrete foundation walls, how would you prescriptively construct this?

    The table requires 5.5" minimum.

  5. #5
    Sawhorse
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    Which table Tim?

    The picture that I posted is the typical type of Garage "curb wall" that is
    built here. Maybe not that poorly constructed & finished, but typical in
    its width & height.

    In the Simpson-Strongtie catalog, some of their STHD straps require
    a minimum 6 " wide stem / curb wall to be installed.

    So I'm looking for answers in the IRC.

    What say ye learned code officials!

    .
    Please pray for Wilson ("Daddy-O") and his family!



  6. #6
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    Table R404.1.1 was the table I was referring to. If they are building prescriptively, what are they using to justify this is compliant? The minimum the prescriptive table describes is a 5.5" wall (and the concrete cannot be narrower than the wall supported).

    If the wall was 5.5" I wouldn't have an issue. My question would be "where does it say you can use a 3.5" foundation wall?"

  7. #7
    Sawhorse
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    comments deleted by globe trekker
    Please pray for Wilson ("Daddy-O") and his family!



  8. #8
    Sawhorse
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    Tim,

    Did you mean Table R404.1.1(5) ? We are using the 2006 IRC.

    .
    Please pray for Wilson ("Daddy-O") and his family!



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by globe trekker View Post
    Tim,

    Did you mean Table R404.1.1(5) ? We are using the 2006 IRC.

    .
    Yep, that's the one. Prescriptively the table goes down to 5.5". Beyond that, as was noted, there may be an issue with any required anchors.

    Not to say what they have there won't work, but I think you'd need somebody licensed to evaluate it.

    When all is said and done.. Why wouldn't you just place the extra 2".

  10. #10
    Sawhorse
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    Tim,

    Let's see... Why wouldn't the local contractors place the extra 2". Costs,
    ..politics, ..we've been doin' it this way for * _______ yrs. and never had
    no problems.* ( you fill in the blank ), ...requires adjustment to their
    well oiled Money Train production line mentality, ....for them to actually
    apply the adopted codes, ..that is, if they even owned a code book, and
    on and on and on and on.


    Good info and discussion on this topic. I do not know if I'm quite ready
    to fall on my sword just yet though, trying to initiate a fight for this
    code requirement.

    .
    Please pray for Wilson ("Daddy-O") and his family!



  11. #11
    Sawhorse Yankee's Avatar
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    I'm looking for the section that talks about stem walls and can't find it . . .is a curb wall the same as a stem wall? I've never heard of a curb wall until today, when I had an application mailed in from a designer out west.

  12. #12
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    The only exception to Table R404.1.1(1) in the 2006 IRC is found in Section R404.5.1 for curtain wall foundations (aka, masonry curb/stem walls) supporting light frame construction of not more than two stories in height and meeting the listed requirements. Outside of those prescriptive allowances/requirements, we require a licensed design professional (i.e., structural engineer or architect) to verify the design.

  13. #13
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    The code uses the phrase "stem wall" but does not define it.

    So, what is a stem wall; is a stem wall anything on top of a footing? :shrug:

  14. #14
    Sawhorse Yankee's Avatar
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    I thought a stem wall was the stepped in (tall) part of a foundation wall leaving wide "shelf" part for masonry bearing. Looks pretty much like that curb wall.

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