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Code Administration Question of the Day 2 Aug 2018

Discussion in 'Code Administration' started by jar546, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    Yes...Their forms are very time consuming, real clock eaters.
     
  2. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    At my current station, the Building Dept. will not know about it. The Planning Dept. might hear about it. The Health Dept. probably will.

    I have worked cities that require an inspection whenever a business license is issued. That inspection did not require a permit. I would find bootlegged work and dangerous conditions and then require relevant permits.
     
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  3. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Agreed...The State here takes technical infeasibility on themselves (sort of)....So if we had to go down that road, they would have to talk to the State....We sort of grandfather old buildings as long as they meet the min. State fire code...
     
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  4. Francis Vineyard

    Francis Vineyard Sawhorse

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    A1) Owner or tenant choice of where to make improvement and does not have to exceed 20% of the alterations to the primary function area in accordance with the following provision.
    IEBC 410.7 Alterations affecting an area containing a primary function. Where an alteration affects the accessibility to, or contains an area of primary function, the route to the primary function area shall be accessible. The accessible route to the primary function area shall include toilet facilities or drinking fountains serving the area of primary function.
    Exceptions:
    1. The costs of providing the accessible route are not required to exceed 20 percent of the costs of the alterations affecting the area of primary function.

    A2) Not in accordance with the Virginia Code.
    USBC 108.2 Exemptions from application for permit. Notwithstanding the requirements of Section 108.1, application for a permit and any related inspections shall not be required for the following; however, this section shall not be construed to exempt such activities from other applicable requirements of this code. In addition, when an owner or an owner’s agent requests that a permit be issued for any of the following, then a permit shall be issued and any related inspections shall be required.

    Construction work deemed by the building official to be minor and ordinary and which does not adversely affect public health or general safety.
     
  5. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    OK, let's continue to discuss:

    Q1) If it were a change of use and occupancy, would it be required to comply with State/Federal ADA codes/laws?

    Q2) Since it is an "uncertified building" with NO history of a C of O, how could anything new not be a change of use?
     
  6. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    Q1) If it were a change of use and occupancy, would it be required to comply with State/Federal ADA codes/laws?
    Federal ADA is a civil rights law and not enforceable by a local AHJ

    Q2) Since it is an "uncertified building" with NO history of a C of O, how could anything new not be a change of use?
    C of O or not, uncertified or not a change of use or occupancy only has to comply with the following not the entire accessibility for new construction as outlined in IBC chapter 11 or ICC/ANSI A117.1

    1012.8 Accessibility.
    Existing buildings that undergo a change of group or occupancy classification shall comply with this section.

    Exception: Type B dwelling or sleeping units required by Section 1107 of the International Building Code are not required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities undergoing a change of occupancy in conjunction with less than a Level 3 alteration.

    1012.8.1 Partial change in occupancy.
    Where a portion of the building is changed to a new occupancy classification, any alteration shall comply with Sections 705, 806 and 906, as applicable.

    1012.8.2 Complete change of occupancy.
    Where an entire building undergoes a change of occupancy, it shall comply with Section 1012.8.1 and shall have all of the following accessible features:

    1. At least one accessible building entrance.

    2. At least one accessible route from an accessible building entrance to primary function areas.

    3. Signage complying with Section 1110 of the International Building Code.

    4. Accessible parking, where parking is provided.

    5. At least one accessible passenger loading zone, where loading zones are provided.

    6. At least one accessible route connecting accessible parking and accessible passenger loading zones to an accessible entrance.

    Where it is technically infeasible to comply with the new construction standards for any of these requirements for a change of group or occupancy, the above items shall conform to the requirements to the maximum extent technically feasible.

    Exception: The accessible features listed in Items 1 through 6 are not required for an accessible route to Type B units.
     
  7. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Yes, which is why I am also pointing to State accessibility laws which often mirror or point to the ANSI A117.1 through the I-Codes.
     
  8. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    Q1) If it were a change of use and occupancy, would it be required to comply with State/Federal ADA codes/laws?

    Not in Illinois, unless the change of use/occ. also required a building permit: Illinois Accessibility Code, Ch.1, 400.310 - "This code is applicable when work involving new construction, alterations, additions, historic preservation, restoration, or reconstruction in whole or in part begins after the effective date of this Code. The Code becomes enforceable with the signing of a construction contract, issuance of an official authorization or permit for construction, or the start of construction, whichever occurs first."

    Q2) Since it is an "uncertified building" with NO history of a C of O, how could anything new not be a change of use?

    If it's restaurant, and it closes, and next week (or even next year) a new guy wants to open a restaurant, nothing changed but the name on the door. "Here's your sign permit" and away you go. If it's a restaurant and next week the guy decides he's a barber, then he's probably going to have to make an alteration or two that will require a permit.
     
  9. Francis Vineyard

    Francis Vineyard Sawhorse

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    A1) see above replies!

    A2) It depends!

    EXISTING BUILDING. A building for which a legal certificate of occupancy has been issued under any edition of the USBC or approved by the building official when no legal certificate of occupancy exists, and that has been occupied for its intended use; or, a building built prior to the initial edition of the USBC.

    CHANGE OF OCCUPANCY. Either of the following shall be considered a change of occupancy where the current VCC (amended IBC) requires a greater degree of accessibility, structural strength, fire protection, means of egress, ventilation or sanitation than is existing in the current building or structure:
    1. Any change in the occupancy classification of a building or structure.
    2. Any change in the purpose of, or a change in the level of activity within, a building or structure.
    Note: The use and occupancy classification of a building or structure, shall be determined in accordance with Chapter 3 of the VCC.
     
  10. tmurray

    tmurray Sawhorse

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    We would class the building using the prior use if it is known. If unknown, then yes, we would treat it as a change of use.
     
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  11. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Let's say the prior use was a few years ago and someone remembers it being a beauty parlor but there is no paperwork trail to back that up.
     
  12. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    A building permit is going to be the driver where I am. And our State accessibility code isn't going to drive compliance without the permit.
     
  13. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    When you have an uncertified building with no documented history of a C of O that has not been used in some time and a new business wants to occupy it, does it require a permit?

    How can you allow the occupancy of a commercial building with a business without a certificate of occupancy?
     
  14. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    When you have an uncertified building with no documented history of a C of O that has not been used in some time and a new business wants to occupy it, does it require a permit? NO.

    How can you allow the occupancy of a commercial building with a business without a certificate of occupancy? There's no such thing as an "uncertified building" in my City codes, nor any of the State codes I am permitted to / supposed to enforce.

    [A] 102.6 Existing structures. The legal occupancy of any structure existing on the date of adoption of this code shall be permitted to continue without change, except as otherwise specifically provided in this code, the International Existing Building Code, the International Property Maintenance Code or the International Fire Code.

    The legal occupancy of a building doesn't end once that building becomes vacant. So even 10 years later - if it was a beauty shop, and someone wants to reopen it as a beauty shop tomorrow, then I have no legal way to make them do anything. Nor should I.
     
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  15. tmurray

    tmurray Sawhorse

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    The question I would always come back to is; is the building less safe now than if the beauty parlor had continually occupied the space? In my mind it is very unlikely that there is any increase in hazard simply that the use of the building was suspended for a few years and then started back up again.

    On the legal side, if change of use/occupancy is my trigger, I have to prove that there was a change of use. If there is no paperwork, people remember it being a beauty parlor, and when I go to site I son't see something that is obviously a different use, I will have a very challenging time proving that the use has changed. The important question now is how do you capture the current use so this does not become a continuing issue? We have generally just written a memo to file stating the use so that there is some kind of record.
     
  16. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    If the beauty shop had no CO and a new business wants to occupy it, at what point do you start having legal occupancies in your jurisdiction? Where does the code / ordinance draw the line? At what point are you legally obligated to step in?
     
  17. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    They're already legal occupancies right now, today. That doesn't change until someone pulls a permit, or wants to change the use.

    Once that happens, depending on the scope of the work being done, either the whole building or just that tenant space in the building will get a CO with/after their final inspection.
     
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  18. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    Whats on both sides of this parlor? and do those spaces have CO's?
     
  19. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    In today's world google earth street view, facebook and other social medium platforms can verify a business use without paper documentation. Now it does not proof that the use you may find ever had a C of O but it is a starting point to work from.

    We do not have a business license in our jurisdiction so the come and go every week. Half never succeed and are gone in 6 months or less. If alterations are being done that require a permit we work with them to get it done. If no permit is required we will do a fire life safety inspection but no C of O is ever given.
     
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  20. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    Exactly the same thing here, except we do not do any inspections (fire/life safety) prior to them moving in. Only inspections we do are when a permit is pulled, or when we have PM complaints.
     

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