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Existing Football field

Discussion in 'Existing Buildings Codes' started by thisonelife, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. thisonelife

    thisonelife New Member

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    If this isn't a stumper! I have an existing football field with bleachers for 2975 people. The field is used for PE as well as track meets and football games after school hours. The facility is located across the street from the high school and is within 500 ' of the restrooms in the gym.

    The owner would like a new field house that includes locker rooms, coaches offices, official's locker rooms and concessions. The facility does not currently have restrooms, the school brings in portable toilets for big events. The AHJ is saying that we need to have restrooms for the spectators but cannot tell me the code under which this is true, remember that there are no existing restrooms. The question is what is the code that says that I have to provide fixtures for the spectators in an existing facility that does not have restrooms and the project scope does not include spectator restrooms.
     
  2. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    [P] 2902.1 Minimum number of fixtures. Plumbing fixtures
    shall be provided for the type of occupancy and in the minimum
    number shown in Table 2902.1.

    So let me get this straight...You are going to add food and drink, but don't want to give them bathrooms? Is that the gist of it?
     
    JBI likes this.
  3. fatboy

    fatboy Administrator

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    We had the same situation presented to us, and we fell back on 2902.3.2, that allows facilities to be within 500', which you correctly cited. They also were bringing in porti's as supplemental facilities.

    Bases covered.

    Good luck.

    BTW......Welcome!
     
  4. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I do agree with FB to an extent, but it is the AHJ's call (to some extent) that the existing fixtures are adequate....
     
  5. CityKin

    CityKin Sawhorse

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    If you were building new/more bleachers I would require toilets to be provided, and neither port-o-let nor crossing a street would be acceptable IMO.

    Since the field and bleachers are existing, thus you are not increasing the occupant load, I'm not sure I would require the toilets, but I believe this is a judgement to be made by the AHJ
     
  6. Francis Vineyard

    Francis Vineyard Sawhorse

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    Assuming for NM: https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/collections/new%20mexico

    Capture.PNG

    2015 IEBC
    1101.1 Scope.
    An addition to a building or structure shall comply with the International Codes as adopted for new construction without requiring the existing building or structure to comply with any requirements of those codes or of these provisions, except as required by this chapter. Where an addition impacts the existing building or structure, that portion shall comply with this code.

    1101.2 Creation or extension of nonconformity. An addition shall not create or extend any nonconformity in the existing building to which the addition is being made with regard to accessibility, structural strength, fire safety, means of egress, or the capacity of mechanical, plumbing, or electrical systems.
     
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  7. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    I always have to go at halftime! How bout you? And those little white things are not mints!
     
  8. Ty J.

    Ty J. Active Member

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    Different thought than those above....

    The new building would absolutely be required to have restrooms in accordance with 2902.1, however the restrooms would only be calculated upon the occupancy of the new structure (the field house). This would substantially decrease the number of facilities required - most likely a single men's and women's stall required.These facilities would be required to comply with ADA/A117.1 as well.

    Being that the existing facility (the stadium) is not being changed, it is not required to be brought up to code. If the stadium seats (an assembly area) were altered during the construction of the new structure (the field house), the AHJ may require that the stadium facilities be brought up to code.

    I would speak with the AHJ and explain that the existing facility is not being modified and that the intent is to add a separate building that will comply with current code.
     
  9. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    The owner would like a new field house that includes locker rooms, coaches offices, official's locker rooms and concessions.

    There is no suggestion that toilets are not needed. The argument to deny the need is what? The code doesn't require toilets.....and that's why they rent them. I have used hundreds of blue rooms......some were green. On a job site they work well enough. At a field of dreams they are a rude excuse for a lack of manners.

    2975 people in the bleachers and another hundred players, coaches and cheerleaders. Well if a 1000 fans showed up, 350 of them used a porta-potti. Then they hit the concession stand with their $20 for a footlong and fatboy's favorite, Cheetos.

    The first thing his wife says when they get home, "Take off those shoes and wash your hands".

    I guess I don't like crowds any more than the owner does.
     
    #9 ICE, Sep 25, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
    fatboy likes this.
  10. north star

    north star Sawhorse

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    @ ~ @

    Here, here now !.........Where are our manners ?
    This is **thisonelife**'s 1st visit to our Forum.

    Shirley we can extend a civil greeting to him \ her.

    Welcome **thisonelife** to The Building Codes Forum ! :D


    Question # 1: Regarding the existing number of plbg.

    fixtures within' the 500 ft. distance across the street,
    are there a code compliant number of fixtures for the
    rest of the school; as well as, the stadium occupants ?

    Question # 2: Are the coaches, staff, other occupants

    part of the 2,975 number, or is this number the
    calculated number in the bleachers only ?

    Question # 3: Which Codes & edition are you using ?


    Question # 4: Does this also include the Existing

    Building Code, something else, or nothing adopted ?

    Thanks for coming here to ask your questions !


    @ ~ @
     
    JBI likes this.
  11. fatboy

    fatboy Administrator

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    I welcomed him!
     
    JBI likes this.
  12. tmurray

    tmurray Sawhorse

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    Sounds like there will only be events after school hours.

    I'm in agreement with Ty J. They can make you add new restrooms for the new building, but that's it.
     
  13. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Sounds like a partial COU from A5 to A2......

    1010.1 Increased demand. Where the occupancy of an existing
    building or part of an existing building is changed such
    that the new occupancy is subject to increased or different
    plumbing fixture requirements or to increased water supply
    requirements in accordance with the International Plumbing
    Code, the new occupancy shall comply with the intent of the
    respective International Plumbing Code provisions.
     
  14. my250r11

    my250r11 Sawhorse

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    NM Codes;

    2015 IBC, IRC, IEBC with Amendments
    2012 UPC, UMC with amendments
    2009 NM Energy Conservation Code
    2014 NEC with amendments

    IMHO the new facility has to have restrooms. It is up to the AHJ as whether or not to consider it a change of use to add for the spectators. Having them will only help the owner & spectators.
     
  15. VillageInspector

    VillageInspector Sawhorse

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    Am I the only one who is curious why he is referencing the IEBC for the construction of a NEW field house? Or am I missing something, ..which is very possible, after all it is Monday morning.
     
  16. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Existing "facility".....Not saying it is right, but it might be where the AHJ is coming from...
     
  17. VillageInspector

    VillageInspector Sawhorse

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    I understand that the football field is existing however you stated "The owner would like a new field house" which led to my comment
     
  18. JBI

    JBI Sawhorse

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    The IEBC does have sections specific to additions, which would explain the reference to it.
    Basically the addition itself must meet new Code and the impacts on the 'existing' building/structure need to be evaluated. That would include all systems that might be impacted, including plumbing systems.

    Anyone else feel there's something missing here? OL just under 3 thousand and they're balking at toilet facilities?
     
  19. north star

    north star Sawhorse

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    & * & * &

    Yes **JBI**, ...there is more information needed for us to
    continue to vette this topic.

    **thisonelife** has not been back to continue the discussion.


    & * & * &
     

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