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new fire station: domestic or commercial kitchen exhuast required

Discussion in 'Commercial Mechanical Codes' started by Tim Mailloux, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Tim Mailloux

    Tim Mailloux Registered User

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    I am working on a new fire station with barracks in MA, the state code is based on the 2015 IBC with state amendments. The building is going to be type 2B construction, fully sprinklered, non separated mixed use B, R-2, A-3 & S-2.

    Seeing how the station will have sleeping barracks we are providing a large kitchen with high end commercial grade appliances so the fire fighters can cook shift meals. We are trying to determine if we can get away with a domestic exhaust hood (IMC 505) or if we needs a commercial kitchen hood over the range (IMC 506 & 507). This kitchen will only be used by the fire fighters to prepare food for the fire fighters, which leads me to believe a domestic kitchen exhaust per IMC section 505 is acceptable. But the IMC definition of Commercial Kitchen Equipment muddies the waters:



    COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment for heating or cooking food and which produce grease vapors, steam, fumes, smoke or odors that are required to be removed

    through a local exhaust ventilation system. Such appliances include deep fat fryers; upright broilers; griddles; broilers; steam-jacketed kettles; hot-top ranges; under-fired broilers (charbroilers); ovens; barbecues; rotisseries; and similar appliances. For the purpose of this definition, a food service establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof used for the preparation and serving of food.



    Thoughts?
     
  2. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Is this considered a critical services facility for use during local or state emergencies? Most states Firehouses are and available for use in support of disasters. Consider using commercial for long term durability too.
     
    jar546 likes this.
  3. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    Commercial appliances; commercial hood.
     
    Joe Engel, JCraver and jar546 like this.
  4. Tim Mailloux

    Tim Mailloux Registered User

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    The station has not been designed to be used as an emergency shelter.
     
  5. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    This is an AHJ call

    I have seen it go both ways.

    In my vast opinion they should have a type I hood and extinguishing system.
     
  6. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    Check with the appliance manufacture.
    Listing information.
     
  7. Mark K

    Mark K Platinum Member

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    The IBC does not use the term critical facility but it does use the term essential facility. Look at table 1604.5 in the 2015 IBC. A fire station is clearly an essential facility.

    But the question is whether the fact that this is an essential facility requires a commercial exhaust. Does the code compel.

    This is not a commercial food establishment and is no different than a large family that has commercial grade appliances.
     
  8. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    It is a facility regulated under IBC, IMC, IFC

    And a few more alaphbets

    But not
    IRC
     
  9. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    A Fire House is not a commercial food establishment, however hood is required and the btu's that come off of a commercial stove top may not be able to be handled by a residential exhaust hood. The mechanical engineer should spec out what will be required.
    A Type I hood's primary function is grease capture and removal this is not usually an issue in a firehouse where the crew prepares their own meals.
    I would ask for a heat detector to shut off the fuel source in the event the appliances are left on after a call out or put in a residential greenheck suppression system
    You can get them up to 550 cfm exhuast rate

    http://www.greenheck.com/media/pdf/catalogs/FireReady00.KIT.1014R1.pdf
     
  10. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Well a hood is not just required in

    Commercial food establishments


    This subject has been beaten on before

    Up to the ahj
     
  11. jwilly3879

    jwilly3879 Sawhorse

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    Similar situation with the firehouse in Town. They say the appliances are for use by the firemen. The problem is the meeting hall is also used by the public for wedding receptions dinners by various organizations. As of now they have no Type I hood or fire suppression system so I have allowed no cooking on premises.
     
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  12. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment for heating or cooking food and which produce grease vapors, steam, fumes, smoke or odors that are required to be removed through a local exhaust ventilation system. Such appliances include deep fat fryers; upright broilers; griddles; broilers; steam-jacketed kettles; hot-top ranges; under-fired broilers (charbroilers); ovens; barbecues; rotisseries; and similar appliances. For the purpose of this definition, a food service establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof used for the preparation and serving of food.

    Typically fireman consume what they prepare and not serve it to others
     
  13. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    This is the answer.

    Similarly - if they installed all listed residential appliances, even the really high end ones that are almost commercial, they could use a residential hood and skip the suppression.
     
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  14. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Ok let the beating begin

    A church??
     
  15. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I think fire person


    Prepares food

    And serves food
     
  16. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Firehouse are community gathering points, thanksgiving, Christmas, 4th of July,etc. Power failures, floods, firemen have big appetites and require big stoves, go commercial. How many engines in this house?
     
  17. rgrace

    rgrace Sawhorse

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    2015 IMC 505.4 Other than Group R. In other than Group R occupancies, where domestic cooking appliances are utilized for domestic purposes, such appliances shall be provided with domestic range hoods (or can utilize Type I hoods if one chooses to go beyond this minimum). I can concur that a firehouse designed with bunks (R-2) can be utilized for domestic purposes. This section allows for a domestic range hood to be installed over a domestic cooking appliance for this Group. If the domestic cooking appliance is changed to commercial cooking appliance, this section is no longer applicable and a Type I hood would then be required per 507.2 which states "Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process." Firehouse cooking appliances will produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process. If it is agreed that this can be considered a domestic purpose, the hood type will be determined by the cooking appliance; domestic grade or commercial grade.

    and then there's ........

    2015 IRC (undisputably "domestic") M1901.2 states cooking appliances shall be listed and labeled for household use.

    2015 IFGC 623.3 and IRC G2447.3 state cooking appliances installed within dwelling units and within areas where domestic cooking operations occur shall be listed and labeled as household-type appliances for domestic use. Does this mean that if we were to consider the firehouse R-2 as being domestic, we cannot install a commercial grade gas cooking appliance in this R-2 without getting approval from the AHJ through the code modification process?

    If cooking facilities were provided for use by the A-3 Group, this would more than likely result in commercial cooking appliances and Type I hoods. I've seen firehouse designs that had this setup; one kitchen for the firefighters and one kitchen for the A-3 Group.
     
  18. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    Since we are discussing a fire station therefore not a residence, it is commercial and if it has cooking that produces grease-laden vapors

    NFPA1, with MA adendment, then to NFPAfor 96

    upload_2018-8-12_9-45-33.png upload_2018-8-12_9-46-44.png upload_2018-8-12_9-37-40.png upload_2018-8-12_9-45-33.png upload_2018-8-12_9-46-44.png upload_2018-8-12_9-57-4.png
     
  19. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Oh here we go again with the commercial hood vs residential requirements. Let's look at this another way besides the obvious that this is not a residential building. Of all people who need to set the example for the sake of safety, the Fire Department should want this to be a protected, commercial kitchen. You do know there is a history of fire department buildings catching on fire, right?
     
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