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Pool cover in lieu of a safety fence for kids?

Discussion in 'Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs' started by ADAguy, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    Has anyone ever seen a removable ladder for a above ground pool removed?
     
  2. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    An occasional drowning is to be expected. That justifies having the barriers. Take away the drownings completely and people will scoff at the barrier codes. It's like car wrecks and fires....the last thing society needs is no wrecks or fires. Think of what that would cost in lost revenue for the insurance industry..
     
  3. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    As long as it is someone else's kid or Grandkid, it is acceptable....?
     
  4. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    I had a HO drag one to a hallway for me to get into the attic. Dripping wet. I took a picture.

    [​IMG]
     
    my250r11 and Francis Vineyard like this.
  5. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    A little change of subject. But I have some problems on pools and would like how other inspectors think about it. We use the 2009 IRC and I don't know if newer codes fixed these things.

    1. Someone is building a deck next to a aboveground pool. No connection to the house. Would you make them have a light for the stairway as required by IRC R311.7.8?
    Or since this is not a means of egress from a dwelling the stairway does not need to comply with code at all? The removable stairway or ladder for aboveground pools never meet the stairway requirements. Would you let them use the removable stairway/ladder to get on this deck?

    2. Does the door alarm for a house sliding patio door for a pool area go on the glass door or screen door or both?

    3. If a large operable window with a low windowsill with or without a screen that opens to a pool area need to be kept somehow from a child to go through it?

    4. IRC AG 105.2 requires the top of the pool barrier to be at least 48' above grade. I always took this as meaning a walking surface rather than grade especially for a deck that connects a house to a pool. But the this section also requires less than a 2" space between grade and the bottom of the barrier. I could understand it the barrier was on the ground but is this still needed if the barrier is on a deck or a paved surface?
     
  6. Keystone

    Keystone Sawhorse

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    Interesting questions.



    1. No light.
    Removable ladder from a deck, hummmmmmmmmmmmm, never had that but off the top I would say no and require a stair with landing and appropriate height gate/latch assembly. Being the deck is permanent in nature and the chance for slippage, accidental or purposeful removal may pose an issue.

    2. We require the door alarm on the sliding glass door due to that door being the primary door and in todays day and age most homes have AC blasting as soon as the weather breaks.

    3. I assume its a window from the dwelling, I would say nothing needed. Does not appear to be addressed by the code.

    4. We take it from grade, now bear in mind these situation may vary and field decisions made such as a deck at or very near grade. If anything was indicated at plan submission we would ask for pictures and or conduct a site visit.
     
  7. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    5. Would you require a landing on top of the stairway if the gate swings over the stairs?
     
  8. Keystone

    Keystone Sawhorse

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    Yes, either the bottom or top. I catch a lot of flack for this but this is how I interpret.

    The first problem is the space it takes up, the second is the barrier height of 48inches.
     
  9. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I have allowed the gate to swing over a stair or 2, but wouldn't do anymore than that....Clarification....when the stairway is only one or two risers...Not 2 risers of a 6' tall stair.
     
  10. sunpraiser88

    sunpraiser88 Member

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    Yes to Pool Covers.
     
  11. JBI

    JBI Sawhorse

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    The Code says 'where a wall of a dwelling', the intent was never to allow a property border fence that includes an entire dwelling to be accepted as a pool barrier in and of itself. This provision merely allows one wall of the dwelling to be incorporated for owner/occupant convenience.
     
  12. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    Unfortunately that is how many people see it. Take a look at the picture with this post. It was my first time there. The inspection request was for door alarms. Apparently they lacked alarms on the doors that lead directly to a new pool....at least that's what a correction notice stated. Well then, the alarms have been installed. So the lady and I went to the gate that leads to the pool and I explained what was wrong with it. She said that she was told that the gate must swing away from the pool so a latch and spring was added to make that happen.

    And how about the stairway to Heaven that's built into the fence. Now the building department is responsible for causing a delay in plastering the pool. The owner expects to plaster the pool and deal with the fence and gate at a final inspection. The hitch in that giddy-up is that the pool is filled with water as soon as it is plastered.

    Logically, the fence and gate should be made code compliant before the hole is dug. The excavation requires a barrier per ordinance. Seldom do I find a barrier when I show up for a pre-gunite inspection. The gate, or sometimes the fence, is gone because a swimming pool is going to be drug to the back yard. I ask for a barrier.....they put up caution tape....or lean a pallet in the gap.....a sheet of plywood.....that I have to move to get in. Pool contractors are not aware of the danger......wait minute, I've told most of them a half dozen times. Mark's description fits them perfectly.

    [​IMG]

    Behind me is more steps in the block wall. A puppy could drown in that pool.....well not yet cause it's empty....and maybe never .....that is a bit of a drop. But how could anybody miss the steps?
     
    #32 ICE, Dec 31, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  13. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Not a pool person

    But if you take the wall down to the second level, a person can still hop the fence easily

    Does the city allow Concertina wire
     
  14. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    No but mean dogs are ok.
     
  15. MtnArch

    MtnArch Sawhorse

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    Unfortunately you can't forestall someone climbing the fence, one way or the other. Even if the demising fence extended 20 feet in front the the gate, the gate itself (and the neighbor's gate) allow someone footholds to climb over the gate/fence to access the pool area.
     
  16. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    The gate is part of the correction notice. The rub here is that they weren’t told that the gate or block wall are a violation. According to the owner, they were told that the only problem was that the gate did not swing away from the pool. So they made the gate swing away from the pool. A gate that is wrong in every respect. It is too short. It has footholds. The latch is too low. I could toss a four inch diameter cat through the gaps.

    Speaking of tossing cats....one day a lady called the office and asked me to inspect her pool equipment. She had the house sold and an inspector flagged the pool wiring. I explained that we don’t do that unless there is a permit. She was livid. Shouting that government workers are lazy, worthless and more. Every time that I tried to say something she cut me off and railed some more. At some point she said that she would have here gardener rip it all out and then get a permit so that I would have to inspect it. While she was still talking I said, “Perhaps you could just turn everything on and toss a cat in the pool and see what happens”. That brought her to a stop.

    In retrospect, that may have been bad advice....I’m not sure that cats can swim.
     
    #36 ICE, Jan 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  17. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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  18. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    I'm still worried about not requiring alarms on the screen doors. Where I live you don't need A/C most summer days. Except for the last 10 years it hardly ever got hot enough for me to have A/C.

    Also if large screened in porch is next to the pool with a screen door where should you require the door alarm?
     
  19. georgia plans exam

    georgia plans exam Silver Member

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    Just a question about the CMU wall. If the decorative blocks at the top of the wall are above the minimum height of the wall, 48" here, is it still a violation? GPE
     
  20. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    How are they attached
    Are they going to fall off if someone climbs the fence or will they withstand the wind loads?
     

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