1. ATTENTION returning members. If you are coming here from the old forum for the first time, you will need to reset you password. However, we had an email problem getting password reset links set out to a lot of the email addresses. That problem is temporarily rectified but IF you still have an issue, email me direct at info@thebuildingcodeforum.com and I will give you a temporary password.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by clicking here: Upgrades
    Dismiss Notice

Self-Certification Program??

Discussion in 'Code Administration' started by Joker, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Joker

    Joker Bronze Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    1
    As I'm sure most of you are aware there are cities around the country (Chicago, New York, Phoenix, etc.) that are allowing Architects to go through training and then certify that their plans are code compliant. Have you been involved with a municipality that has an initiative like this? If so please advise how you were involved with that municipality, and share your experiences.
     
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    13,185
    Likes Received:
    626
    That is interesting

    Do they do the inspections also?
     
  3. JBI

    JBI Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    221
    Codes and code officials exist largely because design professionals (and contractors) did not necessarily do their jobs correctly.
    Letting the fox guard the hen house has never worked out very well...
     
    Ty J., Joker and fatboy like this.
  4. fatboy

    fatboy Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    275
    Amen.... I'm with JBI.
     
    Joker and JBI like this.
  5. Keystone

    Keystone Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    55
    Pennsylvania had or (still has I think), an expedited plan review process, if a DP lists a disclaimer on the plans stating compliance with applicable codes the plan review time is reduced to 5 business days. When this was enacted we seen a rash of disclaimers and I can say a veryyyyy small majority made it through review the first go round or even the second. Further understand Pennsylvania does NOT have CEU requirements for Registered Architects.

    Joker or anyone who can answer, what is the reasoning behind the Design Professionals Self Certifying, delays, qualified plan reviewers????
     
    Joker likes this.
  6. JBI

    JBI Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    221
    Keystone, these are primarily large, active cities that are probably looking to either reduce or not increase their building departments as a cost control measure. NYC for example has a line outside the door before the start of almost every day. Expediters wait on line for hours at a time for 5 or 10 minutes with someone who can accept their submittals, or discuss applications.
     
  7. tmurray

    tmurray Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    227
    We had a similar proposal from our architects and engineer societies, that as they are registered professionals, they are intimately familiar with the codes and should not be under the same scrutiny, but they could not demonstrate that their members had the required knowledge based solely on their credentials.

    I would agree with JBI. We have had architects and engineers for much longer than building officials. There is a reason that society thought this was a necessary role.
     
    Joker and JBI like this.
  8. cda

    cda Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    13,185
    Likes Received:
    626
  9. Sifu

    Sifu Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    35
    I can think of a 1/2 dozen questions to ask right away that would disqualify most architects in my area. Most of our plans don't get off the code information page or life-safety analysis without comments. Is it because they don't know, too busy, too lazy, or just trying to please a client and get away with something? Take your pick, any way you slice it, JBI has it...... The fox in charge of the hen-house!
     
    Joker likes this.
  10. fatboy

    fatboy Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    275
    Truth Sifu, code analysis alone typically triggers redline comments.
     
  11. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    5,375
    Likes Received:
    534
    I can barely get a plan that shows they are using the correct codes, nevermind analysis....
     
    Joker and fatboy like this.
  12. Joker

    Joker Bronze Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    1
    No
     
  13. Joker

    Joker Bronze Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    1
    They're saying it reduces time drastically. This is merely speculation but maybe where it first started the city didn't have enough plan reviewers to handle the load at that time and the other cities fell in line because it sounded like a "Good Idea".
     
  14. Joker

    Joker Bronze Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    1
    Everyone, Thanks for your replies. I'm also concerned about the Fox Factor. I've seen a boat load of bad plans and "creative" interpretations of the code by some of the so called best in our area. I'm glad that I have the support of my superiors so far. Cities like NY and Chicago doing it makes it very hard to push back when there's opposition from above.
     
  15. Mark K

    Mark K Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    32
    Self certification kind of defeats the idea of having a building department.

    At one time NYC claimed that they had to go to certifications because of the size of the jurisdiction.
    this claim can be shown to be not real if you look at the Los Angeles building department. My sense is that they adopted self certification either because the managers of the department were not competent or because of politics.

    Any jurisdiction where expeditors are essentially required is likely to be prone to corruption.

    Before building departments get too self righteous it should be noted that engineers have stories about building plan checkers that do an inadequate job or are incompetent. Most engineers welcome a thorough plan check but have learned that they cannot count on the building department to find mistakes.
     
    JBI likes this.
  16. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    170
    Can I self certify that I haven't had to much to drink before I drive.....?? We know how well that works out every day.
     
    JBI likes this.
  17. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    147
    Checks and balance are implemented just to prevent what you suggest "Bob".
    Are you trying to increase "Legal" business?
     

Share This Page