Question re: adjacent Assembly spaces

[palikona]

I have a potential client who is doing a TI in two adjacent existing spaces. Both would be A-2 spaces, each with a bar with open floor space for dancing and a stage. I need to find the occupant load and analyze the egress requirements: can I combine the two separate spaces into one if there is a physical connection between the two (there’s a 6’ wide existing opening between the two) or do I need to treat them as two distinct A2 spaces?

The reason I ask is if they are treated separately, they both will need 2 exits each based on the load in each space, but if they can be treated as one whole space, they would need 3 total exits.

Thanks for the help.

 

[palikona]

I should say: the adjacent spaces are within the same existing building.

 

[bill1952]

It seems each space is less than 500 so each space requires 2 MOE. Since both are in same building, the building needs 3 MOE. Doesn't change regardless of opening between the two rooms unless it is permanently open one to the other and than a total of 3, not 2 from each part. Travel distance, common path of travel, etc. could affect it.

Whichever is main entrance no matter what the config (divided or joined) has to be min. 50% of OL.

Make sense? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[palikona]

It seems each space is less than 500 so each space requires 2 MOE. Since both are in same building, the building needs 3 MOE. Doesn't change regardless of opening between the two rooms unless it is permanently open one to the other and than a total of 3, not 2 from each part. Travel distance, common path of travel, etc. could affect it.

Whichever is main entrance no matter what the config (divided or joined) has to be min. 50% of OL.

Make sense? Maybe I'm missing something.

1 space is 500 people and 1 is 287. Ah, the building needs 3 MOE, not 4? I was thinking each A2 space needed 2 MOE and therefore 4 for the building.

The opening is permanently open but it’s only 6’ wide (between the two A2 spaces).

When you say main entry: you mean to the two A2 spaces? Not the building itself, right?

 

[bill1952]

I meant main entry to the building, but I can see there could be other options. I assume a building with two assembly spaces has one main building entrance - but my experience. If each part has its own main entrance - from public way - fine - but when used for a single event - one should be sized for half that occupant load. There is a option or exception to the main entrance rule but I dont think of using it for under 1000 occupants.

Your project may be fine but possibly far different than what I'm used to.

 

[palikona]

Thanks. We’ll review with the local AHJ, but this helps a lot.

 

[Yikes]

I have seen major municipalities approve a max. 4’ wide opening between two 749 sf "B" occupancies rather than calling them a combined 1498 sf "A" occupancy.
The 4‘ wide opening is the ‘exit through an intervening room’. Each room also has a 2nd, distinct exit that does not require travel through an intervening room.

 

[palikona]

I have seen major municipalities approve a max. 4’ wide opening between two 749 sf "B" occupancies rather than calling them a combined 1498 sf "A" occupancy.
The 4‘ wide opening is the ‘exit through an intervening room’. Each room also has a 2nd, distinct exit that does not require travel through an intervening room.

Thanks!

 

[Genduct]

I have a potential client who is doing a TI in two adjacent existing spaces. Both would be A-2 spaces, each with a bar with open floor space for dancing and a stage. I need to find the occupant load and analyze the egress requirements: can I combine the two separate spaces into one if there is a physical connection between the two (there’s a 6’ wide existing opening between the two) or do I need to treat them as two distinct A2 spaces?

The reason I ask is if they are treated separately, they both will need 2 exits each based on the load in each space, but if they can be treated as one whole space, they would need 3 total exits.

Thanks for the help.

I think your Code Official will want to see a Life safety Drawing with the travel distances and rated assemblies identified, Fire Alarm (sprinklier?) and other info Tables Legal Occupancy etc, to provide a real review