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Deck with Stair

K

Keystone

SAWHORSE
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
1,274
Location
Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
Just received a 2nd story deck, plans indicate a ladder type stair with inswing gate at top.

I say this is not within the scope of the IRC, what say ya?

Would a ladder frame stair would be different than say attic stair or bilco door stair?
 
I would ignore it..........treat it like if there were a ladder leaning agaqinst the deck on final inspection. Make sure the "gate" meet resists lateral loading.

This could get interesting though...... :popcorn
 
I would not be comfortable signing a CO on a second story deck with a gate to nowhere. Ladder leaning against a code compliant guard rail is one thing. Gate that opens and no landing, no stairs, no way.
 
Even fire escapes on existing structures can no longer use ladders to access...Ch 34 IBC
 
I think we should allow our countrymen the freedom to buy rope. If they tie a noose, that's when there becomes a problem...

I'm 100% with Fatboy on this one. The gate would need to be much, much more robust than a "gate" I would allow at the top of a stairway. It would need to support the full loads expected of the guard, that would mean a latching mechanism at both top and bottom. I would push the idea of a "removable guard section" as opposed to a "gate". That would be my only comment.

Much like letting there be a kids slide off the edge of a deck. Enjoy your freedoms, my neighbors...enjoy!

Yes...I'm being all patriotic and stuff about it. I'm sick of overbearing regulation in this country...from Feds and from us.

DISCLAIMER: I'd have to see the "gate", and use my gut from that point. No concern regarding the ladder.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rshuey said:
Ladder does not meet stair geometry requirement. no go.
Click to expand...
Peanut butter is not jelly. A ladder is not a stairway. No reason to try to force either to be the other.

Different story if it was a "required" stairway that was being constructed as a ladder. No requirement for either from a deck, unless it's serving the egress door and is not at grade level.
 
Removable guard, maybe, inswing gate - probably not. More inclined to go with the naysayers on this one.
 
Re: Deck with Stair

Glenn,

Climb off of your soapbox, fold up your flag and use your head. If there's s gate it is to egress from. You need compliant stairs. Simple as that.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
A ladder on the outside of a building that is part of the building is not for me to regulate. They can call it an architectural feature.....or a ladder and I have no authority to meddle with that. The guard around the deck is another story. That I do have to deal with. Put a gate in that guard, no matter how strong or idiot proof, and I have a problem approving it. Around here, there will be a set of approved plans to follow and I seriously doubt that any plan check engineer would allow the gate.
 
rshuey said:
Glenn,Climb off of your soapbox, fold up your flag and use your head. If there's s gate it is to egress from. You need compliant stairs. Simple as that.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
That was pretty funny! Sorry...just a little "fed" up with regulation (pun intended). And heck....I am(was) a democrat!

ICE said it pretty well. and like I said...I'd have to see the "gate". The ladder...not my business.
 
Re: Deck with Stair

Lol. It made me laugh too. You sounded like my father.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
Always ask yourself if you can defend yourself in a court of law if something were to go wrong. With that being said, a ladder is not prescriptive and if it were attached to the deck we have a problem. Add a gate to the ladder area and it is obvious what the purpose is. You can talk about over regulation all you want but we live in a litigious society.
 
Not approved! Do your job.

That's why it's called a guard rail.

Fatboy out to lunch.
 
jar546 said:
a ladder is not prescriptive and if it were attached to the deck we have a problem.
Click to expand...
What code section applies? The gate I get....but not the ladder.
 
It seems the only issue that could be justified is the unprotected fall hazard. I can't imagine you would prohibit the gate, ladder, or an opening between guards on a deck that didn't require guards. A 24" high deck with an opening between guards and a ladder provided. I can't imagine you would find authority to write that up?

So let's "think" about this, as I was asked. Let me play devil's advocate.

House over a 48" tall crawlspace. The access is in the floor and compliant in minimum size. Naturally, there are no stairs. Maybe there's a ladder, maybe not. When you lift the lid of the crawlspace access you have an unprotected fall hazard, just like when you open the gate. Shall we require guards around the opening? Shall we require a stairway, and thus a much larger opening than the minimum required? Or do we require the access lid to simply support the required live loads and leave it at that. Is this not synonymous with the fall hazard and "gate" we are discussing? Often the crawlspace access is in a closet. Someone "could" leave it open and then when I step into the dark closet I don't see the hole. Actually...I could have that opening smack in the very middle of my living room. Would you fail my inspection or require a stairway to the crawlspace?

Attic with storage. Obviously intending people to ascend into it. No compliant stairs. Maybe a ladder. Perhaps there are fold down stairs (that don't meet the code). I climb the stairs and go to the attic to get the Christmas lights. Uh-oh...I back up into the open hole. Is this not the same hazard and probability?

Hazards are everywhere. We need to be concerned with the probably hazards, not the possible. Everything is possible.

When someone makes the conscience choice to open access to an unusual feature, they are quite aware of what they are doing. If someone leaves it open...well...they could leave their stove on too? A gate serving a ladder at the edge of a deck sounds a lot like a feature meant for occasional access, not taking the burgers out to the grill on the flagstone below.

Again, the gate would need to be substantial to resist the required live loads (just like the crawlspace access door). However, is seems many are still going after the ladder as a non-compliant stairway. Ask yourself if the height of the deck would make a difference. If so...then I think the point is the fall hazard, not the ladder.

Fun stuff. I like a good discussion. Even with you hard-@sses LOL!
 
It's just like a play structure, which is awesome,

just rather they add that part after CO is issued and I am gone.

I wonder if the gate had a safety latch like those used around pools would be acceptable as reducing the risk.
 
One local inspector is along the lines of Glenn, he suggested placing a landing area at the top of the ladder stair and latch assembly per appendix "G" of the IRC. As much as I would like to allow this approach due to the freedom and fun factor I do not see solid ground to stand on, this isn't a gray area its not even remotely addressed as part of the code. This deck will be constructed in a small municipality and the appeals board IMO would be inclined to approve such design based on the freedom and fun factor.
 
I would add to tmurray's for the "gate and barrier shall have no opening larger than ½ inch with 18 inches of the release mechanism" and the gate meet Table 301.5 for guards; otherwise would have to comply with code for a guard between the landing and ladder.
 
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