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"Disabled". An over counted minority

Brent, You didn't answer my question? My assumption is that you feel that the law should be repealed because the cost to the many is to great of a burden for the few that you feel actually need these improvements. I never have a clue what your actual point is, but that is my take away.
 
I will JP. Trying to get some punch list crap done :)

Wanna relax tonight and see if I can tie my thoughts together. Might take a try or two. :)

Brent
 
Kwitcher bellyachin' , do your job, and hope you never need the turning radius, lever doorknob, or breathing apparatus.
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Our jobs have nothing to do with the civil rights of individuals. Our jobs are to enforce the building codes as adopted. The intent of the code doesn't even mention "accessibility" as a purpose for the code, See Section 101.3.

I have no problem with the federal ADA law and its enforcement by the federal government. I have a problem with state laws that encourage and grant certain individuals a venue to collect money from business owners through intimidation or out and out extortion by sending a simple form letter that threatens a lawsuit.

"The difference between bribery and extortion, I tell them to imagine the following scenario: "A man is pulled over by a State Trooper for driving 100 miles per hour. As the Trooper approaches and asks for his wallet, the man pulls out a $100 bill and says 'I bet you $100 that you're going to give me a ticket.' The Trooper smiles, takes the bill, and says 'Nope, you're wrong.'"

After students correctly conclude that the above scenario constitutes bribery, I give them this scenario: "A different man is pulled over by a State Trooper for driving 100 miles per hour. As he approaches the vehicle and asks for the man's wallet, the Trooper looks at him and says 'I bet you $100 that you're not going to get a ticket today.' The driver smiles, takes out a bill, and says 'I'll take that bet.' The Trooper takes the bill, says 'Sorry, you lose,' and walks away."

That second scenario is extortion - as opposed to bribery - because the communication was initiated by the officer and because it contained an implicit threat."

Quote from Mike Adams Law Professor UNC

http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2013/11/12/bribery-and-extortion-n1743810
 
Thank you Mike for informing us as to "why" attorneys persue these claims of failure to provide access.

"If" counsels would agree to better "inform" their clients of their duty to comply, then they would be providing a "value" added service to their clients and society.

Too much to ask/expect?

Less costly (billable hours) to inform but ethically isn't it the right thing to do?
 
actually............... that is to much to expect because I would say the majority of these shakedown targets are mom n pop shops that do not typically have the funds for legal counsel.
 
My point is that there is a distinction between the ADA and building code required accessibility. That's the part about doing my job.

Although it's not invoked here in NY as much, other regions seem to have serial ADA offenders that appear to be in it for the money money money.

Meanwhile, I for one will continue to enforce Chapter 11 along with all the other stuff that I'm not in total agreement with, and pause to give thanks and enjoy some family downtime. Happy turkey day!
 
Mac Accessibility Laws in some states, actually goes back into the '60's

Always remember:

Accessibility is like an electrical system in that conductivity needs to be provided.

If there is a break in the line, circuit failure will occur.

For example, an accessible drinking fountain is not much good if you are unable to get through a door to where the fountain is located.

It is important to remember that the codes come from laws.

One must always look to the intent of the law in this regard.

Similarly, if The Building Code or ADASAD does not specifically address an item, assume that feature still needs to be accessible.

Finally, it is important to remember that accessible environments benefit everyone.

Curb ramps serve parents pushing baby strollers, elderly persons with carts, bicycle riders and other members of the general public.

Hi/low drinking fountains assist the disabled but also are, nondisabled, children and adult friendly.

Making a business accessible can tap a previously untapped revenue source.

Enabling a disabled person to work at an accessible workstation decreases the burden on government assistance and contributes to our community as a whole.
 
MH, this is one of your more lucid and to the point comments. It emphasizes the purpose and intent for our role as access specialists.

Happy Turkey day to all!
 
Mac said:
My point is that there is a distinction between the ADA and building code required accessibility. That's the part about doing my job.Although it's not invoked here in NY as much, other regions seem to have serial ADA offenders that appear to be in it for the money money money.

Meanwhile, I for one will continue to enforce Chapter 11 along with all the other stuff that I'm not in total agreement with, and pause to give thanks and enjoy some family downtime. Happy turkey day!
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The biggest problem with Chapter 11 is with existing structures that are renovated. It works quite well for new construction but Chapter 11 and actually the entire IBC doesn't place any emphasis on bringing parts of the building now under construction up to code which IMHO leave a huge hole in accessibility standards when you rely on the IBC only! I'm personally handicapped and need buildings to be accessible to live a normal life. Too many times I find buildings that don't even come close to meeting the ADA even after major renovation but still met the IBC requirements. There obviously are offenders that are only in it for the money but that happens with anything. There's no reason for any business not to be in compliance these days and those that aren't need to be punished!
 
Msradell said:
The biggest problem with Chapter 11 is with existing structures that are renovated.
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With existing structures you need to start with SECTION 3411 ACCESSIBILITY FOR EXISTING BUILDINGS not Chapter 11.
 
mark handler said:
With existing structures you need to start with SECTION 3411 ACCESSIBILITY FOR EXISTING BUILDINGS not Chapter 11.
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I should've clarified that however, per local officials is no change in use occurs no changes to accessibility have to be made during renovations! That is certainly left open to interpretation in chapter 3411 as to what a change in use is.
 
Equal rights, and access, is a Basic American Principal. You seem to speak of having a right to something, as an Bad thing and mistakenly equate an entitlement with a bad thing, We are all entitled to rights given by our laws.

ADA is not a special privilege, it creates equal, not special, equal access.

If you provide equal access, you provide equal opportunities, and the Disabled will not be on the disability/welfare roles.
 
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The Americans with Disabilities Act Sailed through the U.S. House and Senate and across Republican President Bush one's desk. The strongly bipartisan House vote in 1990 was 377 to 28, the vote in the Senate an equally overwhelming 91 to 6. Reaffirmed by Bush two.

It is the law, get over it.
 
mark handler said:
The Americans with Disabilities Act Sailed through the U.S. House and Senate and across Republican President Bush one's desk.
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They should have spent a little more time thinking about what they were doing.
 
mark handler said:
The Americans with Disabilities Act Sailed through the U.S. House and Senate and across Republican President Bush one's desk. The strongly bipartisan House vote in 1990 was 377 to 28, the vote in the Senate an equally overwhelming 91 to 6. Reaffirmed by Bush two.It is the law, get over it.
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There are plenty of laws I can't just get over. This is just one. A bad one.

Brent.
 
Many cannot get over the civil war.

If you want to re-enslave People, then keep worrying about it, until you or a family member needs that ramp.

Some people just have to experience it.

The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. Frank Zappa

But still the best country in the world.
 
ICE said:
They should have spent a little more time thinking about what they were doing.
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Good luck. Fighting a law giving a certain group of people the same rights as everyone else is political suicide for most representatives.
 
I am not against the concept. Every now and then, society musters the fortitude to do the right thing. It's too bad that result hasn't been a bragging point. A better thought out plan could have opened up virtually all of the natural and built environment to people in wheelchairs. There wouldn't be a need for a ramp next to every stair, at least not one that you drive a chair on.

Okay you say, what about people in walkers? They are in a transition from walking to a wheelchair and they must be accommodated? Get the wheelchair. Do we build for every stage of life?

There should be a door knob, oh excuse me it's door lever not door knob, I guess that when it comes to ADA, I'm dumb as a door lever. Ya that door lever should be 12' off the floor for toddlers.

I recently saw a wheelchair that was operated by moving a magnetized tongue piercing. By now there could be wheel chairs that can climb trees. But that will not happen. We will continue to cut down trees for form boards to build ramps so overweight people don't have to climb stairs. Ramps and crossing guards are why so many kids are fat.
 
For those that belive in jesus, think about how he would see this law.

Would he think it wrong?

Doing the right thing allows me to sleep at night and not worry about those things that I can not change.
 
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