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Panic Hardware and occupant load?

J

JPohling

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
1,590
Location
San Diego
CBC 2013 Interior tenant improvement 9,900 SF on the second floor Type IIB fully sprinklered. Main double door entry/exit is intended to be herculite type doors. Goal is to eliminate the panic hardware requirement using 1008.1.9.3.2.2. I know the language describes "buildings" and "exterior doors" but we have done this numerous times using the "this door to remain unlocked when building is occupied" Or "during business hours". I seem to recall this being covered in an interpretation but I cannot find that document. Do you allow this exception?

Assuming that we need to provide the "panic hardware or fire exit hardware" I am trying to understand the difference between "panic hardware" and "fire exit hardware" So far, they are one and the same from what I can tell...........

Occupant load question. 792SF "Training Room" room is furnished with training tables with chairs seating 29 persons. We have typically used an occupant load factor of 1/20 net from Table 1004.1.2 New plan checker is saying that this room needs to be calculated at 1/15 as the 1/20 load is only for educational buildings. Its an educational use, but I do not see anything restricting this to an E occupancy. Furthermore, I do not believe he has read the "City of San Diego technical bulletin Bldg 10-1 Floor area allowances" #10. Computer training rooms with fixed workstations = 1/50 net! This is for the "function of the space" not the type of occupancy. I would prefer to just keep it at 1/20 rather than forcing the 1/50 on him. Partially because I dont think he would appreciate me calling him on the much more relaxed occupant load and I do'nt want to spacify that the tables be fixed to the floor.

Let the discussion begin! JP
 
What is the main occupancy type of the space???

B?

Would not apply "E" unless it met an "E" occupancy.

So what occupant load does the plan checker come up with?

Is this San Diego ?
 
The interp for City of San Diego regarding panic hardware per exceptions in 1008 (or equivalent prior code section) isn't on the website now. As I remember, it was based on the 1995 CBC. You have a "sales" presentation to get the AHJ to approve exception 2.2

If the review was done with "checklist" by checkbox; see if the proper code application is stated on the checklist. It is absolutely reasonable to me that an actual training room is 1/20 occ load, if the "new" plan reviewer doesn't budge from 1/15, politely ask to have the issue taken to supervisory level review. If you can live with the 1/15 for means of egress system loading, I recommend leave it alone, revise the occ load, and continue.
 
CDA, This is a B occupancy general business office suite. The room use is a computer training room. Plan checker is stating 1/15 for that use. I will argue 1/20 even though the tech bulletin says I am good at 1/50 as I do not want to fix the tables to the floor.

Whats your take on the panic hardware at the double door entry/exit?

JD, we could live with the 1/15 but would require another exit door and then panics on both doors. Not interested in providing something that is not required.
 
Not familiar with the CBC but the IBC classifies your room as a business occupancy not an "A" or "E" that may trigger the panic hardware if over 50 occupants.

IBC "B" occupancy

"Training and skill development not within a school or academic program"
 
" Not interested in providing something that is not required. "

Yeah, wouldn't want to go above Code with anything... :-(
 
JBI,..............your going to re configure the plan layout to provide an additional exit door with separation and add additional panics on the now two doors for a room that has fixed seating at computer workstations for 29 persons when the trigger is 50 persons? And the jurisdiction has published a technical bulletin that would actually reduce my occupant load to 16 at 1/50 net for that specific use? Not gonna happen. I would rather save that money for one of Ice's nifty solar installations.
 
JPohling said:
JBI,..............your going to re configure the plan layout to provide an additional exit door with separation and add additional panics on the now two doors for a room that has fixed seating at computer workstations for 29 persons when the trigger is 50 persons? And the jurisdiction has published a technical bulletin that would actually reduce my occupant load to 16 at 1/50 net for that specific use? Not gonna happen. I would rather save that money for one of Ice's nifty solar installations.
Click to expand...
Can you post a link to the tech bullitien?
 
I would still go with 1/15

Now if you put a computer in the room / which most training rooms have, of relabel the room

Than I would give you 1/50
 
Ok in reading more I can see your argurement

What was the room labeled as on the original plan submital???
 
High Desert said:
Fire exit hardware is panic hardware listed to be installed on a fire door.
Click to expand...
Operationally the hardware is the same as panic hardware but has to positively latch, right? The bar can't have the ability to be locked in the open/unlatched position with a key or wrench, correct? It's protecting the opening of a stair, fire area etc..
 
JPohling said:
it was labeled training and shown with a training room table layout.
Click to expand...
After rereading sounds like you have a very good point

Put a computer in it and claim computer training room
 
Turns out that he was fine with the 1/20 when I showed him the possible 1/50! CBC indicates 1/20 for a classroom use. The 1/20 is not intended for only E occupancies.

Also got the double herculite main entry/exit doors approved without panics using the "this door to remain unlocked while occupied" signage. That was a bonus.
 
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