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Cutting codes to cut costs of construction

Granny flats are not a building code restriction.....ZONING....

I keep saying this but to us on the bright side it's not just the building code, but anything the evil government doers to us. As a matter of fact getting permits for whatever reason is a function of the building department, it's through their door.
 
I'm basing this on my lawyer's experience in Nevada, $2.7 million retirement home, $3,000 permit fee, architect was allowed to do all inspections which he charged very little for.

I think it is a conflict of interest for the designer to do all of the official code inspections on a project they designed. We see mistakes on a daily basis by architects, engineers and contractors. A second or third set of eyes, especially a set of eyes that does not have a pony in the race so to speak. So, if the architect did all of the inspections, why was there a $3,000 permit fee? What services were performed for that money?
 
I think it is a conflict of interest for the designer to do all of the official code inspections on a project they designed. We see mistakes on a daily basis by architects, engineers and contractors. A second or third set of eyes, especially a set of eyes that does not have a pony in the race so to speak. So, if the architect did all of the inspections, why was there a $3,000 permit fee? What services were performed for that money?

His words to me were: "I had a choice of County inspection or private inspection, I chose private inspection and the a architect took care of everything," I asked: "How much did inspection cost", his response was: "It was so minimal that I didn't; even notice", it could by that the architect hired the inspectors. As to what the $3,000 fee was for I would assume the same as the 100s of thousands I pay here, the last home I built the fees were about $100,000, Special Inspections about $80.000, the field inspector made 5 visits of less than an hour each, he did return once the next day with an 8x11 sheet with a County ordinance on it, he apologized for missing it but explained that the County had a special ordinance requiring 6" lips on propane pans, I had to tear out my 4 copper propane pans with 2" lips and have 4 more made with 6" lips. Since Plan Check spent about two years on the plans, repeatedly calling in the architect, structural engineer, and soils engineer, it seems to me the pan lips were an error on the part of Plan Check, and error that cost me a couple of thousand dollars.

Since anyone can get ICC certifications by taking open-book tests why not let contractors and or architects get their own certifications and avoid inspections altogether?
 
"Since anyone can get ICC certifications by taking open-book tests why not let contractors and or architects get their own certifications and avoid inspections altogether?"

Because for the most part they cut corners, ignore the requirements....do whatever they want to do......thus the need for inspections.

Duh

Fox guarding the hen-house.............
 
"Since anyone can get ICC certifications by taking open-book tests why not let contractors and or architects get their own certifications and avoid inspections altogether?"

Because for the most part they cut corners, ignore the requirements....do whatever they want to do......thus the need for inspections.

Duh

Fox guarding the hen-house.............

If they had insurance their screw ups would be covered, with civil servants inspecting they always claim sovereign immunity, In the Nevada case above the owner was a construction deflects attorney, I asked him once why he didn't subpoena city inspectors to testify in his cases, he said "building inspection never involved the important stuff."

In 1994 he won the biggest construction defects case ever, windows set in caulking found to comply with code by the inspector:

In 1994 Jack was lead litigation counsel for plaintiff in the Pacific Park Plaza construction defect litigation which resulted in a $19,300,000 settlement, which at that time was the largest condominium construction defects settlement in California history. In 1999 Jack was lead plaintiff's counsel in the case of Montgomery Washington Homeowners Association construction defects litigation which resulted in a $1,300,000 verdict for plaintiff.

In 1996, he served on the Blue Ribbon Task Force on California's Home Construction Industry convened by Bill Lockyer, President Pro Tem of the California State Senate.¹

Be interesting to see how San Francisco's plan to eliminate permits and inspections on it's ADUs works out, if it works there maybe it's time to eliminate permits and inspections on all residential work.


¹ http://bpbsllp.com/jack-provine
 
My stepfather worked for an airline as an inspector and supervisor for over 36 years.

Would you still fly if planes were not inspected when being overhauled?

Does the public want to buy a home that has not been inspected?

My realtor set home inspectors are deal killers, Conarb, you,d like him, simular opinions.
 
This subject would have never come up had you guys fought the I Codes, we all sat and many fought the stupid fire-sprinklers seeing the fraud involved, section by section kept getting added and you did nothing about it going around measuring the heights of mirrors and signs, and now people are questioning all inspection and codes. Jim Brown went to Washington amid a lot of fanfare saying he was going to clean up the ICC, now he admits to having drunk the Kool-Aid.
 
Conarb, who's brain child was it to eliminate the other codes like the UBC and Southern Building Code and give the power to the ICC with an office in DC. Seems there's a lot of federal agencies getting involved with the code writing.
 
Conarb, who's brain child was it to eliminate the other codes like the UBC and Southern Building Code and give the power to the ICC with an office in DC. Seems there's a lot of federal agencies getting involved with the code writing.

PC:

That's my gripe, I could tell something nefarious was afoot when they formed the ICC, then I was sure when they rented space in DC at triple the going cost in order to be in a Green building. Codes are now political, enforcing codes you are enforcing a political party's agenda. Before he dropped out Uncle Bob gave me a personal phone call saying that he had it on good authority that the ICC would never let Jim Brown in, well Jim did get in, in his words "He drank the Kool Aid and hasn't cleaned up anything. From what he says the ICC just does what the Feds tell them to do.
 
"Be interesting to see how San Francisco's plan to eliminate permits and inspections on it's ADUs works out, if it works there maybe it's time to eliminate permits and inspections on all residential work."

Not in this AHJ..........not under my watch.....
 
"Be interesting to see how San Francisco's plan to eliminate permits and inspections on it's ADUs works out, if it works there maybe it's time to eliminate permits and inspections on all residential work."

Not in this AHJ..........not under my watch.....

Fatboy:

What's your solution? I had to go into Oakland this morning and the situation is unbearable, people sleeping all over the place in tents, codes and regulations have gone mad, the primary problem is overpopulation and we've been warned about it for years, what are we going to do with all these homeless people?

Number one I'd say is get entirely rid of the International codes, go back to about the 1994 UBC.
 
Fatboy:

What's your solution? I had to go into Oakland this morning and the situation is unbearable, people sleeping all over the place in tents, codes and regulations have gone mad, the primary problem is overpopulation and we've been warned about it for years, what are we going to do with all these homeless people?

Number one I'd say is get entirely rid of the International codes, go back to about the 1994 UBC.

I'd really like to see the fact based study that links building codes to homelessness. The major causes of homelessness are:
1) Lack of affordable housing
2) Unemployment
3) Poverty
4) Low wages
5) Mental Illness
6) Substance abuse
7) Domestic violence

So yeah, lack of affordable housing but rigorous quantitative analyses indicate that codes increase housing costs by 5 percent or less. One of the problems that I see is that Conarb is using unvetted examples from a specific area of the country, state and region, therefore his viewpoint of all codes is based on the bubble he lives in.
 
So yeah, lack of affordable housing but rigorous quantitative analyses indicate that codes increase housing costs by 5 percent or less. One of the problems that I see is that Conarb is using unvetted examples from a specific area of the country, state and region, therefore his viewpoint of all codes is based on the bubble he lives in.

I admit that, my dad had a new home built here in 1939, when WWII started there was an influx of "Oakies" that came here to work in the war industries, they homesteaded land and built tar paper shacks to live in, they somehow lived in them without dying in fires or earthquakes. We had little government land, no zoning regulations, and minimal code enforcement, there was a two lane road that was part of the "Victory Highway" system built after WWI, few cars traveled that road, now that road is a 10 lane freeway with frontage roads on each side, they are in the process now of creating toll lanes, all the raw land is now parks or some kind of public lands. A few years ago my tile setter moved to Southern Oregon, he called to say it's just like it was in the Bay Area 50 years ago, he bought a few acres and can go down town and pick up a permit to build a home in a day.

I want to make something clear, when you guys say code you mean building codes, when we on the bright side say codes and regulations we mean all codes and regulations accessed through the building department when we go in to get a permit. When we had the sprinkler fights here the coalition brought on a guy from South Carolina who could install fire sprinklers for $2 a square foot, at the time I was permitting a new home and they came in at $25 a foot, copper required, snaking it up through clearstory ceilings as high as 40 feet in the air, 20,000 gallons of water storage on site. BTW, everything we build we pay an "Affordable Housing Fee", it varies with the community but can be as much as whole homes in cheaper areas of the country. If something isn't done the rest of the country will end up in a mess just like we are, we got this way gradually and I'm talking about what I've witnessed over the last 80 years.

I don't want International codes, what's wrong with going back to something reasonable like the 1994 UBC?
 
1994 UBC? Wouldn't it would be nice if we could turn the clocks back on everything? Not happening.
 
It is about 15 years old and long but interesting paper

https://www.huduser.gov/periodicals/cityscpe/vol8num1/ch2.pdf

Abstract This article examines whether and to what extent building codes affect housing costs. It first describes these technical provisions, then considers how building codes could theoretically affect housing costs, and finally analyzes empirical studies on the subject. While the latter are dated and suffer from other limitations, the more rigorous quantitative analyses indicate that codes increase housing costs by 5 percent or less. Further, building codes are in a state of flux and we need to examine how the current generation of regulations affects housing. Thus, building codes merit contemporary investigation; however, these regulations have much less impact on housing costs compared to other regulations such as zoning and subdivisions requirements.
 
who's brain child was it to eliminate the other codes like the UBC and Southern Building Code and give the power to the ICC
My understanding is the feds where looking at developing a national building code which would have been a disaster so the model code groups saw the writing on the wall and decided to merge together and develop one code
 
One issue I see is we don't eliminate hardly any codes. A work receptacle comes to mind, why we require a receptacle on a roof top and a receptacle near an A/C unit when just about everyone in the trades are using battery powered tools. I'm sure someone will say we still need them but I'm sure there are some codes that can be removed.
 
I would think the the only extra cost because of the building codes would only be the cost of the permit and inspection. Because it should be built that way anyway even where they don't enforce codes..
 
Long discussion, consider that total cost ='s land (+) materials (+) labor (+) soft costs; reduce labor (as in Davis Bacon) and your costs drop while still maintaining safety and durability.
 
My understanding is the feds where looking at developing a national building code which would have been a disaster so the model code groups saw the writing on the wall and decided to merge together and develop one code

That's what we were hearing at the time, but could it have been any worse than what we've got?
 
I could see dropping the drywall (wallboard) inspection. Kind of a waste of time unless it is for an important feature of the building. Don't see how that is going to save money on construction though. We do not charge a "per inspection" fee.

I agree, drop the drywall inspection. Not that it saves on inspection fees so much as it reduces delays, which cost money. Remember "Time is Money". The only drywall inspections that are required by code are when sheetrock is used for braced wall panels or when it is a UL Listed assembly. All of the homes built in my jurisdiction are using the WSB method instead of the GB method for wall bracing. I have eliminated the drywall inspection and replaced it with an exterior shear panel nailing inspection. This allows for a preliminary framing inspection prior to installing housewrap which can prevent framing errors at an earlier stage of construction, again saving costs while improving compliance.
 
The objective of a businesses is to generate as much profit as possible. Reduce the cost of construction and the market will keep paying the same and profits for businesses will increase.
 
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