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Clarification on containment req. per 2015 IFC 5004.2.2

M

Morphdesigns

Sawhorse
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
44
Location
Waupun
Working on a H-3 building. We have a hazardous liquid warehouse and have 55 gal or 500 gal IBC totes in this warehouse, with a 1B flammable liquid.

Per IFC 5004.2.2, we need to provide secondary containment. This room is around 3500 sqft. Our sprinkler flow rate is 1210 gpm. So a total of 25,000 gal. foam/sprinkler water in this room.
I cannot find it in the code, but should I assume that I need to deduct the area of the totes/barrels from the total area of the room? So assuming totes have an area of 15 sqft, and have 50 totes that are sitting on the floor. I would take my total room area 3500 sqft - (15 x 50 totes=750 sqft) = 2750 area to hold my 25000 gal of foam/sprinkler water.

Am I correct in this assumption? It does not state in the IFC that you need to deduct equipment/materials in this room to obtain containment level. What are peoples thoughts on this?
 
Been awhile

Your answer may be in the haz material chapter under secondary

Why do you think you should subtract??
 
I did not see anything, but I just got the IFC Code & commentary, and I will look in that. I am assuming that I need to subtract the volume of the totes because these totes are in the room. So if I design the room as empty, I need a containment level of 12". However, since this room will not be empty, and will contain a max. of 50 totes, when the sprinkler goes on for 20 minutes, it will overflow my containment barrier.
 
cda said:
Why do you think you should subtract??
Click to expand...
By subtract, Morph is referring to the floor area. A reduction of the floor area available for containment would increase the containment barrier height, and provides increased protection.

With that said, I do not believe that you are required to do so Morph. Per 5004.2.2.3, the secondary containment is sized to contain 20min sprinkler flow and the largest container. As the largest container is included, it would be a double penalty to deduct the floor area.
 
5004.2.2.3 at that commentary


Looks like largest container plus 20 minute flow


Look at
 
I guess the other thing is what are the chemicals

Flammable

Or

Acids/ bases/ other
 
IB flammable liquid is the chemical.

Yes, you are correct, the largest container + 20 min. flow. Sorry, did not state the largest container.

I should have stated if I need to deduct the volume of the 50 containers. If I have floor area of 3500 sqft, I have 3500 cuft (12" high containment) of volume for the sprinkler system. But if I have my 50 totes in this 3500 cuft, my volume available for containment is down 750 cuft, because that is the volume of the totes. I would only have 2750 cuft available for containment because tote volume is the rest.
 
Morphdesigns said:
I thought about that, and I did send RLGA a private message from his website, last Friday. I have not had a response. I will try his info@specsandcodes.com and see if he responds to that.
Click to expand...


I should also say that I did see that other link you mentioned, sprinklerage.com. I did a google search first, before posting on this website, and that was a link that came up as well. I printed it off, but have not read it yet.
 
Morphdesigns said:
IB flammable liquid is the chemical.

Yes, you are correct, the largest container + 20 min. flow. Sorry, did not state the largest container.

I should have stated if I need to deduct the volume of the 50 containers. If I have floor area of 3500 sqft, I have 3500 cuft (12" high containment) of volume for the sprinkler system. But if I have my 50 totes in this 3500 cuft, my volume available for containment is down 750 cuft, because that is the volume of the totes. I would only have 2750 cuft available for containment because tote volume is the rest.
Click to expand...


I would say no


Size of the actual room
 
Not sure if this is going to be the final answer, but what I have found that is relative to this, is in FM Global 7-83. "Drainage and Containment Systems for Ignitable Liquids". Couple of pages in, under determining containment level it states "Subtract the floor areas occupied by equipment and large tanks other than the chosen spill vessel from the containment area. This is especially important in rooms with many large tanks."

They are not FM Global insured, so I am only using this as a reference.
If you classify a 400 gal tote as a large tank, is a question, but this is the only wording I have found so far that is remotely an answer to my question.

I did hear back from Ron, over at RLGA, and he had stated that he was not well-versed in this particular area.

If anybody still has options, please continue to post.
 
I would say it does not apply, especially if you are doing a liquid storage room only,

Seems like you need to take the total sq footage, because when the sprinkler system goes off, it will fill the floor area.

Not near the books till Monday, so cannot look
 
Secondary containment for indoor storage areas shall be designed to contain a spill from the largest vessel plus the design flow volume of fire protection water calculated to discharge from the fire-extinguishing system over the minimum required system design area or area of the room or area in which the storage is located, whichever is smaller. The containment capacity shall be designed to contain the flow for a period of 20 minutes.



https://sprinklerage.com/questions-nfpa-30/
 
This may not be a FM job BUT the insurance carrier may still use FM Data Sheets, we did and the company I worked for was not an FM company. Regardless reach out to the insurance carrier loss prevention/ engineering department for input it will save you a headache as plans go in for review.
 
So commentary says

Size of largest container plus 20 minutes of water

Not the sq ft of the room, like I thought
 
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