Townhome Fire Separation

[Joe Torre]

Hello
I have a set of 4-2 story town homes, each unit's first floor has a "loggia" or "porch" area that is adjacent to the next units finished 1st floor (at the property line). The second floor covers the whole first floor including the loggia. The 2nd floor walls at the prop. line we are showing UL#373 2-hr wall. My question is the fire separation at the 1st floor level where the loggias meet the finished 1st floor. Since the loggia does not have a wall that abbuts the other first floor, what kind of separation is needed? We were showing a 1-hr (UL#305) but the city's reviewer has kicked back the drawings. See attached drawings.

https://ibb.co/7gH5M3m
https://ibb.co/QH8mt2B
https://ibb.co/D1yzhxw

Thanks in advance.

 

[cda]

Welcome

There are more knowledgeable people that will answer your question

You might be running into the ,,, no opening within it’s either four or five feet of a firewall

 

[classicT]

What was the exact verbiage of the correction the plans examiner provided? Will help point you in the direction your examiner wants you to fix this.

From my perspective, I see several issues:

1. Opening within 3-ft of lot line
2. 1st floor wall should be a 2-hr rated wall all the way up
3. How are you going to run kitchen hood out? Cannot go through rated walls

 

[Joe Torre]

What was the exact verbiage of the correction the plans examiner provided? Will help point you in the direction your examiner wants you to fix this.

From my perspective, I see several issues:

1. Opening within 3-ft of lot line
2. 1st floor wall should be a 2-hr rated wall all the way up
3. How are you going to run kitchen hood out? Cannot go through rated walls

Thank you for replying. The reviewer has been a pain to work with, I went and met with in person and he DID NOT want to show me where we were not in compliance, he said "you have a code book" - I wanted to kick him lol.....his email said the following:

1. Please see Table R302.1(1) and address the fire-resistance rating for projects greater than or equal to 2 feet to less than 5 feet from the property line (as shown on the updated architectural site plans) as per R302.1(1) and its associated tables of the 2012 IRC with Georgia Amendments

 

[classicT]

Ok....he has kept it vague, most likely because he is not sure of your design. But he is correct, you do have several issues.

Are you just unsure how to make the necessary corrections?

 

[Joe Torre]

Ok....he has kept it vague, most likely because he is not sure of your design. But he is correct, you do have several issues.

Are you just unsure how to make the necessary corrections?

No, I guess what we are unsure is if that demising wall needed to be 2-hr since the upstairs above the loggia is supported by 2 posts and no wall....>Thx

 

[mtlogcabin]

Your loggia is projecting into the required fire separations and therefore needs to be 1-hour rated from the underside in accordance with Table 302.1(1)
Maybe the plans examiner will accept the 2-hour wall in lieu of providing 1-hour under the loggia and the supporting construction

R302.2.1 Continuity.
The fire-resistance-rated wall or assembly separating townhouses shall be continuous from the foundation to the underside of the roof sheathing, deck or slab. The fire-resistance rating shall extend the full length of the wall or assembly, including wall extensions through and separating attached enclosed accessory structures.your loggia

 

[Joe Torre]

Thanks for the reply. We are showing a 1-hr fire rating at the loggia ceiling with Type "X" gypsum and dense packed cellulose to fill full ht of floor system.

 

[classicT]

No, I guess what we are unsure is if that demising wall needed to be 2-hr since the upstairs above the loggia is supported by 2 posts and no wall....>Thx

I'd start by looking at this differently. Different view, but gets the same (nearly) result.

Consider, if you will, these as SFD w/ 0-ft offset from property line. Each is structurally independent, rated for 1-hr exposure from interior and exterior, etc. The stairwell that leads from the loggia to the 2nd level is within 3-ft, which is not permitted.

If the 2nd level over the loggia is supported by the two posts, the posts similarly have to be 1-hr rated.

The other option, if this is all on one lot, is to use a 2-hr wall from foundation to roof that supports both units.

 

[Joe Torre]

I'd start by looking at this differently. Different view, but gets the same (nearly) result.

Consider, if you will, these as SFD w/ 0-ft offset from property line. Each is structurally independent, rated for 1-hr exposure from interior and exterior, etc. The stairwell that leads from the loggia to the 2nd level is within 3-ft, which is not permitted.

If the 2nd level over the loggia is supported by the two posts, the posts similarly have to be 1-hr rated.

The other option, if this is all on one lot, is to use a 2-hr wall from foundation to roof that supports both units.

Thanks for all your input, it has been very helpful! The steps you see is a concrete stair that leads to the front yard (lower).

 

[Joe Torre]

I have been searching code regarding the firerating requirement of walls that are perpendicular to Property Lines....is there such a thing in the code book?

 

[cda]

I have been searching code regarding the firerating requirement of walls that are perpendicular to Property Lines....is there such a thing in the code book?

this IBC, but similar should be in IRC


https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.co...zontal-projecting-elements.24585/#post-191606

I have been searching code regarding the firerating requirement of walls that are perpendicular to Property Lines....is there such a thing in the code book?

Start the research at R302.1 and go on?

 

[cda]

I like pictures::

http://evstudio.com/irc-fire-separation-requirements/

 

[ADAguy]

Worth a thousand words, thank you.