• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Smokes in existing aparments

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,099
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
Doing a plan review and I am looking for a section in the 2015 IEBC/IBC where smoke alarms and/or CO2 alarms are required where these repairs are being made. IFC not used here, only sections referenced in IBC. I don't know how old apartments are, might have been built before codes where used. No sprinklers. No indication if there where smoke alarms or CO2 alarms where in apartments.
IEBC Chapter 6 Repairs.

Unit 1 (2nd floor) - a few rafters to be replaced and small section of drywall removed.
Unit 2 (2nd floor) - a few rafters to be replaced, a small amount of interior wall, ceiling, ceiling insulation, floor framing replaced, all new drywall, kitchen cabinets, appliances, new HVAC system, minor work on plumbing.
Unit 3 (first floor) - some floor joists in ceiling replaced, some new interior wall, all new drywall, kitchen cabinets, appliances, new HVAC system, new electrical system, new plumbing.
 
Any other agency or does the state require them?!

Our state has retrofit law
 
2012 IBC Chapter 34
SECTION 3404
ALTERATIONS
3404.6 Smoke alarms.
Individual sleeping units and individual dwelling units in Group R and I-1 occupancies shall be provided with smoke alarms in accordance with Section 1103.8 of the International Fire Code.
2012 IFC
1103.8 Single- and multiple-station smoke alarms.
Single- and multiple-station smoke alarms shall be installed in existing Group I-1 and R occupancies in accordance with Sections 1103.8.1 through 1103.8.3.
1103.8.1 Where required.
Existing Group I-1 and R occupancies shall be provided with single-station smoke alarms in accordance with Section 907.2.11, except as provided in Sections 1103.8.2 and 1103.8.3.
Exceptions:
1. Where the code that was in effect at the time of construction required smoke alarms and smoke alarms complying with those requirements are already provided.
2. Where smoke alarms have been installed in occupancies and dwellings that were not required to have them at the time of construction, additional smoke alarms shall not be required provided that the existing smoke alarms comply with requirements that were in effect at the time of installation.
3. Where smoke detectors connected to a fire alarm system have been installed as a substitute for smoke alarms.
1103.8.2 Interconnection.
Where more than one smoke alarm is required to be installed within an individual dwelling or sleeping unit, the smoke alarms shall be interconnected in such a manner that the activation of one alarm will activate all of the alarms in the individual unit. Physical interconnection of smoke alarms shall not be required where listed wireless alarms are installed and all alarms sound upon activation of one alarm. The alarm shall be clearly audible in all bedrooms over background noise levels with all intervening doors closed.
Exceptions:
1. Interconnection is not required in buildings that are not undergoing alterations, repairs or construction of any kind.
2. Smoke alarms in existing areas are not required to be interconnected where alterations or repairs do not result in the removal of interior wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, unless there is an attic, crawl space or basement available which could provide access for interconnection without the removal of interior finishes.
1103.8.3 Power source.
Single-station smoke alarms shall receive their primary power from the building wiring provided that such wiring is served from a commercial source and shall be equipped with a battery backup. Smoke alarms with integral strobes that are not equipped with battery backup shall be connected to an emergency electrical system. Smoke alarms shall emit a signal when the batteries are low. Wiring shall be permanent and without a disconnecting switch other than as required for overcurrent protection.
Exceptions:
1. Smoke alarms are permitted to be solely battery operated in existing buildings where no construction is taking place.
2. Smoke alarms are permitted to be solely battery operated in buildings that are not served from a commercial power source.
3. Smoke alarms are permitted to be solely battery operated in existing areas of buildings undergoing alterations or repairs that do not result in the removal of interior walls or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, unless there is an attic, crawl space or basement available which could provide access for building wiring without the removal of interior finishes.
 
Ty J. said:
403.10 Smoke Alarms
Individual sleeping units and individual dwelling units in Group R and I-1 occupancies shall be provided with smoke alarms in accordance with Section 1103.8 of the International Fire Code.
Click to expand...

Thanks but they are using Chapter 6 "Repairs" and the above is from chapter 4.

SECTION 603
FIRE PROTECTION
603.1 General. Repairs shall be done in a manner that maintains
the level of fire protection provided.

I need a clear path from the IEBC to a section that requires smokes or CO2 alarms

I don't think I can use IBC 915.1 which sends you to IFC 1102.9 which requires CO2 alarms in existing R occupies ether.
 
I can't use 2012 IBC Chapter 34, we never used 2012 icodes. We went from 2009 to 2015 which does not have a Chapter 34.
This is not an alteration, it's a repair.
 
Rick18071 said:
Thanks but they are using Chapter 6 "Repairs" and the above is from chapter 4.

SECTION 603
FIRE PROTECTION
603.1 General. Repairs shall be done in a manner that maintains
the level of fire protection provided.

I need a clear path from the IEBC to a section that requires smokes or CO2 alarms

I don't think I can use IBC 915.1 which sends you to IFC 1102.9 which requires CO2 alarms in existing R occupies ether.
Click to expand...

Rick18071 said:
Unit 2 (2nd floor) - a few rafters to be replaced, a small amount of interior wall, ceiling, ceiling insulation, floor framing replaced, all new drywall, kitchen cabinets, appliances, new HVAC system, minor work on plumbing.
Click to expand...
The new cabinets, appliances, and HVAC sure sounds like an alteration to me...

503.1 Scope
Level 1 alterations include the removal and replacement or the covering of existing materials, elements, equipment, or fixtures using new materials, elements, equipment, or fixtures that serve the same purpose.​

But to suit your desires, use the following:

401.3 Dangerous Conditions
The building official shall have the authority to require the elimination of conditions deemed dangerous.

​
 
Your right Unit 2 and 3 should be Level 1 Alterations per chapter 7 but it won't change anything. I'll just stick to what this says:

SECTION 703
FIRE PROTECTION
703.1 General. Alterations shall be done in a manner that
maintains the level of fire protection provided.
 
The level of fire protection provided also means maintained..... We had condo remodels where I was able to get new smokes and CO alarms installed because the old existing smoke detectors were not properly maintained thus eliminating the required level of fire protection required. This is purely an AHJ call;
 
cda nailed it with his link to a requirement of PA state law for rental properties. You do not need to look in the IEBC since they are required by state law
 
There are a lot of state laws that I don't have the power to enforce, littering, murder, adultery. I only enforce the PA Uniform Construction Code. The plans don't indicate that there were any alarms before. I don't know how old the apartment building is and we only stared codes 15 years ago.
 
We have the same language in our state code for residential dwelling units. It even required CO detectors long before they where in the codes. I would just give them a copy of the law and tell them they needed to be there. Nobody ever argued or said no I will not do it. You never know if you do not try
 
What percentage of the building envelope do the apartments occupy?
Unit 3 is definitely Level 2 or higher depending on the answer to the above question.
 
cda thanks for the links but the first on is just CO2 alarms which the IFC already requires in existing buildings. The second lick is just from an investment company which I can't use.

mtlogcabin - Exceptions:
1. Where the code that was in effect at the time of construction required smoke alarms and smoke alarms complying with those requirements are already provided.
 
Then don't worry about asking them to put in smoke detectors for repairs or level 1 alterations. You have no authority to do so according to your code research.
 
There appears to be a Pa requirement for them

Call the labor and state fire marshal direct
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top