Toilet & sink overlap

[steveray]

Wouldn't the lav be a protruding object then?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Since a blind person cannot disseminate a route without feeling the way, the entire restroom is a part of the circulation route.

If this was true all toilet paper dispensers would have to be built into the the wall. This would include soap and towel dispensers and hand dryers anywhere in the toilet room, even if they are above the sink.

 

[Builder Bob]

Hand dryer come with recess kits or a 4" slim line version, Toilet paper dispensers come with a recess to prevent more than 4" protrusion - also the ICC ANSI/ ADA give special exceptions to certain items because they are allowed...... However, the shelf (rack) system depicted earlier is not allowed.

Also to install items above the sink as indicated, a certain amount of reach is allowed as per ICC ANSI Table


Don't shoot the messenger, this is items listed in ICC ANSI and/or ADA and experience from state agency inspections.

Remember the AHJ has the final verdict, and this is the verdict reached by consensus of four state agencies (AHJ) that our architecture office works with on new projects/ remodels/ alterations.

 

[Builder Bob]

ON the lav, nope since it has specific guidelines it has to meet and are specifically spelled out. The 4" protrusion is general statement that is overridden by the specific requirements for the fixture or element -

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Had state accessibility auditors check my inspection work in a few building where toilet paper, soap and towel dispensers and hand dryers came out more than 4" in single user toilet rooms and they never said anything. I only had protruding issues when it is the route to multiple stalls, urinals, and lavatories but never in the required toilet clear floor space. I don't believe a clear floor space is the same as a circulation path. If you are in the clear floor space you are all ready where you want to "go" and there is nowhere else to circulate too until you are done "going".

 

[Builder Bob]

Rick, can you explain that to the four state agencies we work with......... Just being the messenger and showing what we have to deal with at our level.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

[A] 102.1 General. Where there is a conflict between a general
requirement and a specific requirement, the specific
requirement shall be applicable. Where, in any specific case,
different sections of this code specify different materials,
methods of construction or other requirements, the most
restrictive shall govern.

ICC/ANSI 117.1 section 604.3.3 has no protruding requirements and is more specific for one area (clearance around the water closet) and is specific on what can and can't be there, while ICC/ANSI 117.1 section 307 and IBC section 1003.3 "Protruding Objects" is more general because it covers all circulation paths anywhere and anything could be protruding except for handrails and door closers not just specific things.

604.3.3 Clearance Overlap
The required clearance around the water closet shall be permitted to overlap the water closet, associated grab bars, dispensers, sanitary napkin disposal units, coat hooks, shelves, accessible routes, clear floor space and clearances required at other fixtures, and the turning space. No other fixtures or obstructions shall be located within the required water closet clearance.

 

[Builder Bob]

Rick.... I agree with what you are stating, however, the state's four agencies will not ever admit they made a mistake..