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Wheelchair Accessible Toilet Compartment

M

Mech

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Oct 30, 2009
Messages
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Location
Eastern PA
2009 A117.1 & ADA

Is a turn-around space required in a wheelchair accessible compartment? I do not see specific requirements for it although I have always provided one.
 
In a compartment (w/in partitions), no. The specific requirements of Section 604.8 apply.

604.8 Toilet Compartments
Wheelchair accessible toilet compartments shall meet the requirements of 604.8.1 and 604.8.3. Compartments containing more than one plumbing fixture shall comply with 603. Ambulatory accessible compartments shall comply with 604.8.2 and 604.8.3.

604.8.1 Wheelchair Accessible Compartments
Wheelchair accessible compartments shall comply with 604.8.1.

604.8.1.1 Size
Wheelchair accessible compartments shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) wide minimum measured perpendicular to the side wall, and 56 inches (1420 mm) deep minimum for wall hung water closets and 59 inches (1500 mm) deep minimum for floor mounted water closets measured perpendicular to the rear wall. Wheelchair accessible compartments for children’s use shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) wide minimum measured perpendicular to the side wall, and 59 inches (1500 mm) deep minimum for wall hung and floor mounted water closets measured perpendicular to the rear wall.

Figure 604.8.1.1 Size of Wheelchair Accessible Toilet Compartment
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ADAguy said:
A 60" dia circle or a 'T" turn will both allow entry and exit.
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Neither a 60" dia circle nor a 'T' will fit within a 56" x 60" compartment; however, a 56" x 60" compartment is legit.

This is why toe clearances are required.

ce89c637-6a6c-4fe7-8bbf-c182928165e3.jpg
 
ADAguy said:
Code revisions are not retroactive, unlike ADA.
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A117.1 is not code, it is a "Standard". The IEBC is the 'code'. The IEBC will require accessibility to be brought to current standards via Section 305.

As an example, a typical alteration would be per 305.6. This would require it be brought to current code unless technically infeasible (check out that definition - means unless structurally impossible).

305.6 Alterations
A facility that is altered shall comply with the applicable provisions in Chapter 11 of the International Building Code, unless technically infeasible. Where compliance with this section is technically infeasible, the alteration shall provide access to the maximum extent technically feasible.
Exceptions: (not listed herein)​

What the 2017 A117.1 Standard does introduce is overlap within the turning space. This will mostly alleviate most issues in existing facilities, especially via the provision for existing buildings and facilities (304.3.1.2).

upload_2019-9-19_15-45-37.png
 
So, though IEBC is a "model" code, its acceptance is up to the local AHJ. ADA is :"The" law and as such differs from a code. AHJs will not typically respond to ADA complaints and then only to IEBC complaints with regards to noncompliance on permitted alterations, and then only to areas of work.
 
ADAguy said:
So, though IEBC is a "model" code, its acceptance is up to the local AHJ. ADA is :"The" law and as such differs from a code. AHJs will not typically respond to ADA complaints and then only to IEBC complaints with regards to noncompliance on permitted alterations, and then only to areas of work.
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Correct. I as a plans examiner have no ability to review or enforce provisions of the ADA. Owners and design professionals have an obligation to adhere to the ADA and can be sued when they do not. What I can do, is enforce the IBC/IEBC, which provide scoping for how to apply the A117.1 Standard. The A117.1 Standard has been developed to meet or exceed the requirements of the ADA.
 
ADAguy said:
Has DOJ acknowledged your comment?
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This comment?
Ty J. said:
Correct. I as a plans examiner have no ability to review or enforce provisions of the ADA. Owners and design professionals have an obligation to adhere to the ADA and can be sued when they do not. What I can do, is enforce the IBC/IEBC, which provide scoping for how to apply the A117.1 Standard. The A117.1 Standard has been developed to meet or exceed the requirements of the ADA.
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Again, has DOJ so stated that A117.1 Standard is a safe harbor yet? In the opinion of 1BC/IEBC it may but has DOJ concurred?
 
Doesn't matter....They have to "improve" accessibility every time they remodel, so f a designer is designing to anything less than 2017 ANSI, the next time someone pulls a permit at that site they will potentially be tearing out not very old bathrooms....

Thanks for the heads up on turning overlap TJ....
 
ADAguy said:
Again, has DOJ so stated that A117.1 Standard is a safe harbor yet? In the opinion of 1BC/IEBC it may but has DOJ concurred?
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Unless we are talking California, most departments have no reason to follow the DOJ. ADA is a Fed requirement not a Building Code. I cannot enforce it.
 
Ty J. said:
Unless we are talking California, most departments have no reason to follow the DOJ. ADA is a Fed requirement not a Building Code. I cannot enforce it.
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I'm not implying that you can, only that an owner is required to comply with Federal law and your code when a permit is pulled. The owner is bound to retroactively comply with the law but not the code (except for the areas being altered or added to).
 
Perhaps worth restating here:
A toilet COMPARTMENT (ADAS 604) and a toilet ROOM (ADA 603) are not the same thing.

The toilet room is required to have a turnaround in ADA (and CBC).
The toilet compartment is not required to have a turnaround in ADA or CBC, but is required to have toe clearance per ADA 604.8.1.4.
ANSI 117.1 shows not merely and overlap, but an entirely larger turnaround space than currently required by ADA/CBC.
If your local code has adopted ANSI 117.1, then you will need the 67" turnarounds in your new buildings; this applies to toilet ROOMS as well as COMPARTMENTS.
If your local code has not adopted ANSI 117.1 (as California has not), then you still only need 60" for turnaround in your toilet ROOMS, and you only need the clearances shown in 604.8.1.4 in COMPARTMENTS.
 
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