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California cities banning the installation of natural gas

I find it difficult to reconcile the rants about socialism and big government with the reality that most of the individuals on this forum are willing participants in the imposition of building regulations.
 
I find it difficult to reconcile the rants about socialism and big government with the reality that most of the individuals on this forum are willing participants in the imposition of building regulations.
but are the rants coming from the "imposers" or "the "self-proclaimed" victims….of building regulations
 
Back to battery storage, I came across this this morning, a Tesla crash in Austria, it takes 11,000 liters of water to put out the fire, the average fire engine holds 2,000 liters, and the batteries can reignite for three days after the fire. We want these things in our houses?

If you guys had any guts you'd fight this crap rather than enforce it.
 
Fight it how? Not do our jobs?
If these battery packs are a known danger and you require them shouldn't you be liable for any deaths they cause? Remember Nuremberg stands for the proposition that "Just following orders" is no defense.

Bloomberg said:
During a heated deposition this past June, Elon Musk finally seemed to admit that his harshest critics were right. Since forcing through the controversial 2016 purchase of SolarCity Corp., the struggling solar sales-and-installation business he co-founded with his cousins, Tesla Inc.’s chief executive officer has faced almost-constant criticism: The move was called a catastrophe for Tesla, a $2 billion-plus bailout of a debt-saddled company of which Musk himself was chairman and the largest shareholder. Despite plummeting sales and substantial layoffs in the solar division under Tesla after the merger, Musk has fervently defended the SolarCity acquisition, once calling it “blindingly obvious” and a “no-brainer.”

But in a stunningly rare moment of contrition, Musk expressed regret over the decision at his deposition, part of a class-action shareholder suit that’s gained momentum in recent months. “At the time I thought it made strategic sense for Tesla and SolarCity to combine. Hindsight is 20-20,” Musk said. “If I could wind back the clock, you know, I would say probably would have let SolarCity execute by itself.”

The 85% of shareholders who approved the acquisition had only their devout faith in Musk to go on when they voted three years ago this month. The CEO said a combined Tesla-SolarCity was always part of his master plan and would create the world’s first vertically integrated clean energy company. The hope was customers would drive a Tesla electric car, harvest energy from Tesla solar panels to charge it, and tie the ecosystem together with Tesla’s Powerwall home battery


It's all a fraud, for one thing the panels are all shorting out underneath them, of course Tiger could have told them that.



¹ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-deal-has-become-top-threat-to-tesla-s-future
 
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If these battery packs are a known danger and you require them shouldn't you be liable for any deaths they cause? Remember Nuremberg stands for the proposition that "Just following orders" is no defense.

Clue me in, where in the code are these "required"?
 
Clue me in, where in the code are these "required"?

Just where you find this in the codes:

Starting Jan. 1, they won’t be able to get final approval for a variety of home improvements — from replacements of windows to a room addition — unless they have low-flow plumbing fixtures throughout their properties.

By 2017, the law requires all pre-1994 homes to be retrofitted with low-flow plumbing fixtures plus disclosure of noncomplying fixtures when owners sell. Businesses and multifamily buildings also must disclose whether they meet the law when selling property by that date.

Building inspectors say they won’t become “toilet police,” but they do expect toilets to be replaced as people sell their homes and do renovations.

“There’s no language that compels local building departments to write letters and knock on people’s doors,” said Jim MacDonald, building and safety director for unincorporated county territory. “I don’t think the law anticipates there will be 100 percent compliance.”

Local building officials are already trying to get the word out and come up with a consistent policy for the entire county, MacDonald said.¹

I guess they will be part of California's zero energy initiative.

¹ https://www.huffpost.com/entry/low-flow-toilets-required_n_3800061
 
I find it difficult to reconcile the rants about socialism and big government with the reality that most of the individuals on this forum are willing participants in the imposition of building regulations.
Not me... I have to force myself.
 
It's all a fraud, for one thing the panels are all shorting out underneath them, of course Tiger could have told them that.

¹ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-deal-has-become-top-threat-to-tesla-s-future
A known cause of failure is bare copper wire in intimate contact with the aluminum solar panel frame. Dissimilar metal corrosion removes the aluminum allowing the grounded copper wire to reach the circuitry within the panel frame. This can, and has, result in a fire.

While working with the UL2703 standard making panel I almost convinced the group that the installation instructions for racking must highlight the need to separate copper and aluminum. Prior to my involvement there was no mention of dissimilar metal corrosion in any racking installation instructions. You can find it now....but it might take a while.

In reality, installation instructions are a waste of effort in that I’ve never seen any on a job site until I require that. Now that we no longer inspect racking, instructions are pointless.

When we did inspect racking I found bare #6 copper against aluminum nearly every time....for the same companies. Now I can’t see it but I know it’s there.
 
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Not in my code...…...

In post #30 you said: "Fight it how? Not do our jobs?" You need to fight it so it isn't in your code. The requirement I see the most rebellion to from the public is the water conservation codes, I've even told people to find a small contractor who will do it and don't get a permit.
 
Sometimes you make "sense" conarb, this is one of them (smiling). Dissimilar material contact is a "known" issue that any EE should be aware of..
 
Yes, since a battery back-up system had a manufacturer's defect in it, we should ban all of them. Sometimes buildings fall down, so we should ban all of those too.

This line of reasoning is based on confirmation bias. I don't want these things to be required, so when I hear that one is defective, they all must be banned, despite the fact that there are many other manufacturers have similar units that have not suffered from similar problems.
 
One can easily see why it may not be a good idea to run flammable gas underground in pipes in a seismically active area.
 
One can easily see why it may not be a good idea to run flammable gas underground in pipes in a seismically active area.

Ya think, Northridge earthquake

5c3003ad948d9c000a5a4479-eight.jpg

northridge-earthquake-1994-aerial-gas-fire-1.jpg
 
Yes, since a battery back-up system had a manufacturer's defect in it, we should ban all of them. Sometimes buildings fall down, so we should ban all of those too.

This line of reasoning is based on confirmation bias. I don't want these things to be required, so when I hear that one is defective, they all must be banned, despite the fact that there are many other manufacturers have similar units that have not suffered from similar problems.

First of all I specifically referenced Tesla because Elon Musk recently made a proposal to sell "Power Walls" putting new batteries into his cars and recycling used ones into homes, these batteries seem to blow up and catch on fire in accidents, so my point is that in the infernos we have had I would not want Musk's Power Walls on my walls.

Then the big issue is that you are taking my freedoms away and it's none of your damn business, you are supposed to be administrating building regulations to minimum health and safety standards, when the biggest problem we have is the enormous government employee pension liabilities, in our small city of Palo Alto the deficit is now approaching a half billion dollars.

I was reading about the west African country of Togo instituting reforms in two areas, 1) electricity rates, and 2) building permits.

Togo is a $5 billion economy that is made up mostly of agriculture and mining. The country is now implementing regulatory reforms to reduce public debt and lure investments. The country is up 40 places this year in the World Bank's ease-of-doing-business ranking to 97, as a result of introducing reforms to lower electricity costs and fees for construction permits. ¹

You don't reduce electricity costs by adding transportation to the grid, but you could do something about "fees for construction permits".


¹ https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...re-failing-curb-worlds-biggest-piracy-problem
 
Back to the original topic ....
Saw in the news today that some cities in Mass are also starting to restrict gas line connections.
 
California Supercharges Battery Incentive for Wildfire-Vulnerable Homes
A boosted $1-per-watt incentive will cover nearly the entire cost of a Tesla Powerwall home battery system.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...ergy-storage-incentives-for-wildfire-resilien
September 17, 2019
California has passed its first-ever subsidy aimed specifically at bringing more distributed solar and energy storage to people at highest risk of having their power shut off by utilities trying to prevent wildfires.
The California Public Utilities Commission approved changes (PDF) late last week to the Self-Generation Incentive Program, the state’s premier behind-the-meter battery incentive program. Among them is a $100 million carve-out for vulnerable households and critical services in Tier 2 and Tier 3 “high fire threat districts,” offering incentives that could pay for nearly all of a typical residential battery installation, according to the CPUC analysis.
This supercharged incentive is aimed specifically at people at the highest risk of being hurt if, or when, grid power is cut off for hours or even days at a time under the state’s heightened wildfire prevention regime. While utilities have been sparing in their use of this new "public safety power shutoff" authority so far this summer, they are largely at the mercy of the weather to determine how often they’ll be forced to use it in the future, or how many customers might be affected.
Climate change is driving hotter and drier conditions, putting large swaths of the state at high risk of catastrophic wildfires, including those caused by utility power lines. Pacific Gas & Electric’s bankruptcy was driven by its liabilities from wildfires in 2017 and 2018 caused by its power lines, and Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced credit downgrades and the threat of insolvency if they’re hit with blame for a major fire.
State regulators and lawmakers have responded to the crisis with steps including a $21 billion wildfire fund for utilities, as well as mandates to invest billions in grid repairs, tree-trimming, weather forecasting, and other wildfire prevention efforts. Thursday’s decision marks the first time the CPUC has approved one of the several proposals from utilities and distributed energy resources vendors such as Sunrun to put market-based incentives to work on the same task.
The funding will come from SGIP’s equity budget, a set-aside for low-income, medically compromised or otherwise disadvantaged residents. Utilities and solar-storage vendors have struggled to enroll many of these customers in what’s still an expensive solar-storage proposition, leaving large portions of the equity budget unspent.
The regulator's decision addresses many of challenges on this front, such as opening SGIP funding to specific Central Valley disadvantaged communities and participants in existing multi-family housing solar programs. It also boosts the current cap of 50 cents per watt-hour for battery installations, already higher than the mainstream incentive, to 85 cents per watt-hour.
Higher premium
The $100 million carve-out would apply an even higher premium to systems meant to bolster grid resilience against wildfires, up to $1 per watt-hour. “This will address the primary barrier to participation in SGIP by equity budget-eligible customers, particularly residential customers, which is lack of access to financing or capital,” the CPUC noted.
Indeed, at $1 per watt-hour, SGIP pays for $13,200, or 98 percent, of the cost of the typical Tesla Powerwall residential battery system used as the CPUC’s reference case, compared to $6,600 or 50 percent at 50 cents per watt-hour, or $11,200, or 83 percent, at 85 cents per watt-hour.
“Party comments on the proposed decision persuaded us that the risk of setting the incentive levels too low for the new equity resiliency budget and the equity budget, leading again to no or very low participation in these budgets, outweighs the risk that developers will inflate costs,” the CPUC wrote.
Not everyone living in Tier 2 or 3 areas will be eligible for this funding, only “SGIP critical resiliency needs” customers. With a few exceptions, this includes people who meet the equity budget’s low-income and disadvantaged criteria, or are “medical baseline” customers who have notified their utility of a “serious illness or condition that could become life-threatening if electricity is disconnected.”
Critical services and critical infrastructure in Tier 2 and 3 districts can also apply for the carve-out, although CPUC’s decision makes clear it will prioritize “only the most critical facilities and infrastructure and those with the least ability to fund a storage system.”
The CPUC also set up new rules for critical resilience customers, who are meant to use their batteries to “island,” or run disconnected, from the grid, to deal with the fact that the SGIP program wasn’t designed for islanding. These include requirements to have the system inspected by the local utility or another authority with jurisdiction over its interconnection, and to file data on how long it can operate in island mode under different conditions.
Beyond the $100 million wildfire carve-out, the decision makes some important changes to SGIP’s approach to low-income, disadvantaged and multifamily housing, the CPUC’s press release noted. Those include granting eligibility to participants in the Single Family Affordable Solar Homes (SASH) program, the SASH for Disadvantaged Communities program, the Solar on Multifamily Affordable Housing program, and the Multifamily Affordable Solar Housing program.
The CPUC also approved $4 million for heat pump water incentives and $10 million for SGIP storage incentives to support pilot projects in 11 San Joaquin Valley disadvantaged communities.
 
The batteries in a Tesla cover the entire footprint of the car, I've seen a few burn and for days after there is a black spot on the roadway the footprint to the car, apparently the extreme heat draws the asphalt to the surface leaving a big tar spot, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tesla+fore&t=ffnt&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=CdaFk3w6rUY See one burn.

Wal Mart has a huge lawsuit against Tesla for it's burning solar panels, Tiger will be interested in this, of all solar panels 0.05% caught fire, against 2.9% of Tesla's, Wal Mart vs Tesla.

Elon Musk is saying he is working to take all cobalt out of his battery packs, they get most cobalt from the Congo where slavery is still legal, I wonder if it's a coincidence that our CIA has just overthrown the governments in Chile and Bolivia, the two countries with the largest supplies of lithium in the world.

Lithium, the so-called “white petroleum”, drives much of the modern world. It forms a small but essentially irreplaceable component of rechargeable batteries, used in consumer devices like mobile phones and electric cars. It also has pharmaceutical and other applications. Over half of the earth’s identified resources of the mineral are found in South America’s “lithium triangle”, an otherworldly landscape of high-altitude lakes and bright white salt flats that straddles Chile, Argentina and Bolivia


¹ https://www.theguardian.com/technol...lithium-south-america-chile-argentina-bolivia
 
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