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In-Law Suites

:devil

So, Mom's room has its own bathroom, door to the patio, a mini kitchenette (she likes coffee and breakfast in bed) and sitting area.

Are some of you saying this is a "dwelling unit" creating a two family dwelling?

It has a door, separating it from the rest of the house, sanitation, egress, cooking, etc. Is the problem in the OP that it's on a different level?

What if I build the same set-up for each of my 4 kids and myself? Is this now a 6 unit?
 
mjesse said:
:devilSo, Mom's room has its own bathroom, door to the patio, a mini kitchenette (she likes coffee and breakfast in bed) and sitting area.

Are some of you saying this is a "dwelling unit" creating a two family dwelling?

It has a door, separating it from the rest of the house, sanitation, egress, cooking, etc. Is the problem in the OP that it's on a different level?

What if I build the same set-up for each of my 4 kids and myself? Is this now a 6 unit?
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Would you adopt me if you did?

Sounds from the postings more of a potential use/ zoning issue then a building code issue.
 
cda said:
Would you adopt me if you did?Sounds from the postings more of a potential use/ zoning issue then a building code issue.
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Sure, as long as you do your chores!

..

And yes, after re-reading the thread, I didn't see as many calls for separation as I remembered (or mis-remembered) so I retracted my post.

you were too quick on the quote though!
 
There is actually some very interesting case law on the definition of 'family', and federal courts have consistently held that it is unconstitutional to hinge a definition of 'family' on being related by blood. Google 'functionally equivalent family unit'.

Instead of focusing so much on the second kitchen, focus on the 'compete independent' part. If it looks like a duck...
 
Planning here do allow 2nd kitchen right next or adjacent to main kitchen but not allow for remote location, It was call Chinese wok for frying.
 
Lots of groups have (or require) a second kitchen in a single family dwelling or a single dwelling unit. I have long accepted that after dealing with thousands of Orthodox Jewish families (religious requirement) as well as numerous old school Italian families (convenience), among others.

Again the focus should be on the intended use of the space(s)... is it a second kitchen for convenience or religious reasons? OR is it to create a separate, 'independent' unit regardless of traditional familial relationships.
 
Leave my catering kitchen alone or you all are not invited to the next shin dig with the fancy eatin table

 
Thanks everybody! Yes I agree that an "In-Law" suite should be allowed without separation. It was not so much the second kitchen and all amenities for independent living that was causing me difficulty. The only issue I had is when the situation includes a separate area capable of supporting a "rentable" apartment for profit. An area rented to anyone outside the family with the potential for landlord and tenant disputes. Like if the renter in the basement left a candle burning and the house destroyed or worse yet someone killed. Would it be an issue then? Should it have been separated?

I like the "COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT" part and will hang me hat on that as to whether or not it is separated. You rent your basement to a stranger and he burns your "single family home" down, talk to the insurer. :)

Problem solved, thanks guys!
 
Note the C of O "1 family house" or "no second dwelling unit" or whatever makes you warm and fuzzy...And then look for the rental ads on Craigslist.

Personally, as long as I (and my town) are covered and the owner is aware, that is all I can do. They could rent out every room in the house as a bedroom and we might not be the wiser until something happens.
 
Yes I agree that an "In-Law" suite should be allowed without separation.

Now that's a warm and fuzzy statement that someone's gonna regret? ;0

pc1
 
This is one issue our jurisdiction addresses pretty well (as they require rental units to be licensed and registered); if it's a rental unit, separation is required and there cannot be an interior stair connecting the two units). They have a pretty fair compliance rate, as almost all row homes are set up with a separate entrance for the basement and any permit can trigger a visit from zoning.
 
I've always made my argument for or against an 'in-law suite' based on the word 'independent'.

If the unit attaches to the main dwelling with an opening (it can have a door), where the occupants can pass freely between one space and the other, then it is not 'independent'. Or separate. (Using dictionary definitions.)

Once that connection is gone, my argument would be that it has become a separate, 'independent' dwelling unit.
 
Agree with Mr. Softy. Have several houses in town with in-law suites and access to the suite shares the main house entrances so I don't consider it independent.
 
Mr. Softy hit it on the head for me. We also look at the degree of independence. A "family" regardless of the definition should be expected to co-habitate, whereas an independent dwelling unit would likely have walls or locked doors preventing on side from entering the other without a key.

While most agree this appears to be down to the zoning definitions, the issue is how to properly protect the occupants if you cannot determine the use. This is a part of the issue we're dealing with with Air BnB and other short-term rentals. Suddenly an in-law space becomes a nightly rental unit with cooking.
 
You worry about a candle in the basement by a renter but what about a family member that has a candle?

What if you have 5 non-related individuals that share rent but cook separately. Does this make it a five unit building even it a family unit could consist of 10 individuals?

It seems to me some are obsessed about issues that they have no need to be worried about.
 
loganphill.06 said:
Hi,
Could you describe two more kitchen interior design please...
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Observant Jews that maintain a Kosher Kitchen must have separation between milk and meat meals…
There are some foods that are neither - parve…
Some Jews have four separated kitchens.. one milk, one meat and one milk for passover only and one meat for passover only…
Some accommodate both meat and milk in one kitchen with separate preparation areas, separate sinks and dishwashers, separate ovens and cook tops…
It is essential to have seperate sets of dishes, pots, pans and utensils for dairy products and meat products.

Based on an old world tradition of cooking a "kid" (child goat) in it mothers milk, "Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk." This verse appears in the Torah three times, twice in Exodus (23:19 and 34:26) and once in Deuteronomy (14:21). According to Jewish tradition.
 
Many Mediterranean and Southern European cultures have outdoor kitchen.
They would put the "smoke producing" items outside, including Pizza ovens, and Barbeques.
Shawarma and Kebabs are traditionally cooked outside.
 
I have found people "interpret" this according to their own predisposition on the subject. Take the code away and just look at what it is and how it's used right now, and we all damn well know the difference between a duplex and a house. The "could be rentable" excuse is a highly unprofessional argument and a clear sign of either authoritarian rule or innocent lack of experience in code administration.

When all alone with your book, where you can be most honest with your self. Reflect and ask yourself if you are interpreting the code to reinforce your position or are you interpreting the code to create your position. Only when totally honest with yourself will you discover your human folly. It is purely human. It's called "confirmation bias" Here's an article that explains it: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/...nrVnWfA3dDevrROh5ICMkCGeIEgbHe3dfgmNHmUG4S1yE
 
steveray said:
Usually zoning around here brings up the issue...it is not a building code violation until it actually becomes a "2 family" if you have that definition....We draw a line at around 6 "unrelated" people per IRC unit...
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Two-Family as in blood or not? If blood it is then family but how far removed? If not blood then what of an ex-wife?
 
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