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Fire Pole in egress stair exit enclosure

T

Tim Mailloux

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Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
769
Location
Hartford CT
I was just doing a quick internal code review of a New Fire station project my office is designing. The designer is currently showing a traditional fire pole inside the egress stair exit enclosures closest to the bunk rooms. My interpretation is that Egress stairs are only to be used for egress, and a fire pole while technically a means of egress, is not a recognized means of egress in the IBC. My gut feeling is that the fire pole cannot be inside the exit enclosure.
 
RLGA said:
Two-story stairs are not required to be enclosed.
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Can all the stairs be open exit access stairs?
We currently have (3) stairs off the second floor, (2) are rated exit enclosures and (1) is an open exit access stair. The fire pole is currently in one of the rated exit stairs.
 
Why are the stairs in a rated enclosure? Is it an egress distance issue? Mixed use with an R occupancy?
 
Tim Mailloux said:
Can all the stairs be open exit access stairs?
We currently have (3) stairs off the second floor, (2) are rated exit enclosures and (1) is an open exit access stair. The fire pole is currently in one of the rated exit stairs.
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If travel distance is not an issue, then per Section 1019.3, Condition 1, exit access stairways are not required to be enclosed if the stories are not open to other stories, and since your building is a 2-story, then that would be impossible.

By the way, Section 1019.3 is one of the worse written paragraphs in the entire IBC. Why they didn't write it to say that enclosures are required for exit access stairways and then list the following as Exceptions (and mentioning the exclusion of Groups I-2 and I-3 where applicable) rather than stating it the way they did, is beyond me.
 
RLGA said:
By the way, Section 1019.3 is one of the worse written paragraphs in the entire IBC. Why they didn't write it to say that enclosures are required for exit access stairways and then list the following as Exceptions (and mentioning the exclusion of Groups I-2 and I-3 where applicable) rather stating it the way they did, is beyond me.
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Yes, it is very badly written! To be honest I am not entirely up to speed on Exit Access stairs. Here in CT where I do my of my work they are not really a common thing. The State has heavily modified that code section making exit access stairs almost unusable for egress do to all the restrictions and limitations the state added. Maybe Ct will ease up for the upcoming code cycle this October.
 
True, there may however be a need to enclose the stairway, not with a rating but for comfort, HVAC separations, sound or access control.

Aso will have to consider the R use or accessory use for the bunk rooms
 
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I would talk to the local..I would attempt to argue that the pole does not hinder egress and technically could be used for, even if IBC does not recognize....Guessing you are referring to this section?

1022.1 General. Exits shall comply with Sections 1022
through 1027 and the applicable requirements of Sections
1003 through 1015. An exit shall not be used for any purpose
that interferes with its function as a means of egress.

Should be easy to argue that it does not interfere even if it was an exit....Then it just would need to not be a penetration of the rated assembly...If it is rated/ needs to be...
 
They may have the pole in an enclosure,,,

To keep exhaust fumes out of the living/ sleeping area.
 
During an inspection of a fire station I noticed that the fire pole seemed to be too far away from the edge of the platform causing the fireman to throw himself at the pole. The fireman stated that fire poles are there for show and tell and not to be used....they tend to cause injuries.
 
ICE said:
During an inspection of a fire station I noticed that the fire pole seemed to be too far away from the edge of the platform causing the fireman to throw himself at the pole. The fireman stated that fire poles are there for show and tell and not to be used....they tend to cause injuries.
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They can be used for exercise
 
FYI, I once inspected a pole dancing school. Not something I want to do again.
 
steveray said:
I would talk to the local..I would attempt to argue that the pole does not hinder egress and technically could be used for, even if IBC does not recognize....Guessing you are referring to this section?

1022.1 General. Exits shall comply with Sections 1022
through 1027 and the applicable requirements of Sections
1003 through 1015. An exit shall not be used for any purpose
that interferes with its function as a means of egress.

Should be easy to argue that it does not interfere even if it was an exit....Then it just would need to not be a penetration of the rated assembly...If it is rated/ needs to be...
Click to expand...

I would not "attempt to argue" with the local, have a discussion with the local (in this case that would be me) and show through code analysis show how the project meets the code requirements.
 
ICE said:
During an inspection of a fire station I noticed that the fire pole seemed to be too far away from the edge of the platform causing the fireman to throw himself At the pole. The fireman stated that fire poles are there for show and tell and not to be used....they tend to cause injuries.
Click to expand...
Don't tell FDNY that! Almost every house they have that I've been to has a pole and they use them! Maybe dislike and injuries from them is a West Coast thing, Them do things very differently there anyway!
 
TheCommish said:
I would not "attempt to argue" with the local, have a discussion with the local (in this case that would be me) and show through code analysis show how the project meets the code requirements.
Click to expand...

Note my first few words...."Talk to"....I do default to the "legal argument" vernacular probably a little too much but that happens when you live with an attorney...;)
 
The fire pole usually sits in the middle of a round opening 48" diameter with a guard that limits access to one side of the fire pole hole. I fondly remember the days of sliding down the pole to go to fire calls.

Two things that new rookies need to know - never jump onto the fire pole if you still are wet or have shampoo in your hair/hands --- that is when you usually sprain or bust an ankle,

If a veteran talks smack to you and challenges you to a pole climbing race - respectfully decline as somebody is upstairs with a 55 gallon trash can full of water waiting to dump water on you....
 
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