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Juliet Balcony included in gross area?

M

Matt Jones

Registered User
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
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36
Location
Greenville, SC
Working on code diagrams and calcs for an R2 apartment building. We have ~12" deep Juliet balconies at most units with one or two operable door panels. Should the area of the balcony be included in the gross area calc? It's under the horizontal projection of the roof, but not sure that it really qualifies as "usable area" as mentioned (but not defined) in section 202.
 
I'd ask the AHJ, as some may include while others ignore.

Really depends on the AHJ's opinion if it is usable.
 
Matt Jones said:
Working on code diagrams and calcs for an R2 apartment building. We have ~12" deep Juliet balconies at most units with one or two operable door panels. Should the area of the balcony be included in the gross area calc? It's under the horizontal projection of the roof, but not sure that it really qualifies as "usable area" as mentioned (but not defined) in section 202.
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I actually saw a funny quote about these building features from a blog that says: "The Juliet Balcony is essentially as good as a mirage, giving one the feeling that there is usable outdoor space in an apartment, but not actually delivering any".

My own opinion is that they shouldn't be included in the gross floor area calculation in the context that they are primarily decorative in nature and outdoor features that are not really spaces that can be effectively occupied by people in a meaningful way especially in your case that they are only 12" in depth.

Including it would be akin to factoring in planters on a window as part of the area of an interior room is how I see it which I don't think should be the case.
 
Enri Code said:
I actually saw a funny quote about these building features from a blog that says: "The Juliet Balcony is essentially as good as a mirage, giving one the feeling that there is usable outdoor space in an apartment, but not actually delivering any".

My own opinion is that they shouldn't be included in the gross floor area calculation in the context that they are primarily decorative in nature and outdoor features that are not really spaces that can be effectively occupied by people in a meaningful way especially in your case that they are only 12" in depth.

Including it would be akin to factoring in planters on a window as part of the area of an interior room is how I see it which I don't think should be the case.
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Kind of what I was thinking as well, but didn't know if there was a definitive yes or no. I can't really ask the AHJ since the county contracts with a third party and the reviewer won't be assigned until we submit for permit.

e hilton said:
About all they are good for is potted plants and marketing brochures.
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Yup. purely aesthetics. We had full balconies, but this is going on a site along with a historic building. They're seeking tax credits and NPS nixed the full balconies as "too residential for the character of the site."
 
Matt Jones said:
Kind of what I was thinking as well, but didn't know if there was a definitive yes or no. I can't really ask the AHJ since the county contracts with a third party and the reviewer won't be assigned until we submit for permit.



Yup. purely aesthetics. We had full balconies, but this is going on a site along with a historic building. They're seeking tax credits and NPS nixed the full balconies as "too residential for the character of the site."
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For me it is a definitive "No". Logic would dictate that you wouldn't have to based on the facts at hand and the clear design intent. However, nothing wrong for you to be doing due diligence as there is always that chance that you have to exert some extra effort to convince the AHJ otherwise or for some unforeseen matter.

The way I see it, what makes a "Juliet balcony" troublesome is actually its name. For people not particularly familiar with it, they tend to focus on the "balcony" part and all it implies.

Sometimes for an AHJ that is slammed and only has time to initially skim through your plans in a first go around so he can get to a million other things he's assigned to, he might just pick up on the "balcony" part... not because of lack of familiarity but because of time constraints. Nothing a good clear response from you won't be able to clear up.

My advice: overcommunicate items you already foresee as being sticky. Label or add notes to the drawing or your documents accordingly. Think of alternate terms for the Juliet balcony that can still convey what it is in the most direct way. If it were me, I would use the term: "balconet".

Sure you can say "false balcony" - still with that word "balcony"... - but "balconet" I feel will give the AHJ a better definition if he needs to look it up that would be a more fair representation of what you are wanting to convey.

Of course you can also say "balconette" but I think it's more widely used as a term for bras nowadays and initial search results may have the AHJ do a double take if he looks it up. LOL.
 
Again late to the party,

At 12 inches deep as noted they are not really a daily use, but being someone that used to make 1,000 of these a year, we always told the design architects and engineers to list a separate sqft on the balcony itself if you could actually stand on it in tis plan label, and include a separate line total for total sqft for "Decorative balconies" on the drawing, but leave it out of what I will call the all inclusive sqft count.

This allows the information to be there if the AHJ actually wants to know and possibly count and allows them at the same time to verify that it is not in your totals as listed.
 
tbz said:
Again late to the party,

At 12 inches deep as noted they are not really a daily use, but being someone that used to make 1,000 of these a year, we always told the design architects and engineers to list a separate sqft on the balcony itself if you could actually stand on it in tis plan label, and include a separate line total for total sqft for "Decorative balconies" on the drawing, but leave it out of what I will call the all inclusive sqft count.

This allows the information to be there if the AHJ actually wants to know and possibly count and allows them at the same time to verify that it is not in your totals as listed.
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Potential unintended consequences: weight of stored objects, zoning constraints, projection dimension relative to adjacent walking surfaces, fall protection, etc.
 
Why not just call it an extended guardrail? Design it to support balcony loads, but make the bottom out of bars 4" apart to discourage people from actually going out on it.
 
Off-topic trivia: although the term "Juliet balcony" helps everyone to picture a shallow rail creating a small balcony as we all might imagine in Romeo and Juliet, there was no balcony mentioned in Shakespeare's play - - only a window.
Further, there was supposedly no balconies as part an architectural feature of any building style in England at that time.
 
It's included in both fire area and building area...useless building area. GROSS building area is whatever you want it to be unless zoning dictates otherwise.
 
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