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What happens if a city approves a deck that seems to violate fire codes

The permit is not illegal just because you claim that it is illegal. It will take a court of law to deem the permit illegal. Now that may not be the case everywhere but you are up against a recalcitrant building department.

I can tell you that from my experience a permit can be old and moldy but not expired as long as the system shows it as not expired. Okay I get that time has run out but if nobody went into the computer and expired the permit and nobody has written "EXPIRED" with a date and signature on the permit.....well then an inspector can keep it alive with an inspection. I have done exactly that.

There's reasons for doing that. Maybe we dropped the ball. Perhaps a contractor bailed. Jobs will get every inspection except the last inspection. The owner is oblivious. Should we then make the owner pay a load for a final inspection. I've had jobs that stalled because of a catastrophic health issue.

I tell you these things to illustrate that we can do pretty much whatever we want when it comes to expiring permits.

I agree with all of the above and I'm certain an attorney can make the argument that the applicant/client did not bother to renew the permit pending the outcome of the legal actions. Bottom line, as stated above, don't put much stock in the status of the permit.
 
Happy New Year All!! The deck saga continues and I am trying to take the advice of those of you on the forum who have advised me to flank Jeff Flake on both sides. Currently, my appeal has been filed with the district court and if the judge comes issues a timeliness verdict then I believe I can move forward with the appeal. In addition, my neighbor's permit is officially invalid as in accordance with Section 105.5 of the 2015 IRC, which the State of Utah has adopted, all permits are considered expired after 180 days from issuance or from the last known inspection.
Since the deck has never had an inspection (and wasn't built in accordance with the permit) the permit is now expired. My question is, can the city (legally) extend an expired permit where the permit was not legal in the first place?


So just bumping this along, and see if Jane has made progress?
 
So just bumping this along, and see if Jane has made progress?
Well - things have taken a turn (after $38,000 in legal bills). I had a certificate of non compliance attached to the previous structure as I knew the city were basically making me fight timeliness and then when I won they would say the structure didn't exist. So, next thing I know - Jeff Flake knocks out the rear wall (right beside my fenceline - he's almost in my living room now) and I knew that if I didn't appeal it I was "giving my consent" to the illegal deck so I got a stop work order issued and Flake applied for a permit. Meanwhile, he has been doing a complete remodel of his house and told the DOPL guy that the city told me to contact that he had not paid them in cash or in kind. The remodel included knocking down load bearing walls, electrical, plumbing and gas lines and has been going on for 4 months with NO PERMIT.

I checked the permits issued for the French doors and there was no mention of the deck, but given my very expensive land law lesson from last year I knew that there was something else going on. Sure enough, when I arrived at the city there were plans for the new deck hidden in a "copyrighted file". So, the short version of the story is the I filed an appeal that the city could not claim was untimely, and I requested a State Property Rights Ombudsman opinion which "stops the clock" for me to get evidence in. If the ombudsman comes down in my favor then I believe I get awarded costs.

Jeff Flake asked to talk to me on our front steps and told me that my husband and I would lose our jobs at the University if we proceeded. Fortunately, I recorded the conversation.

Anyhow, if anyone can offer any suggestions to make sure the city can't provide (and then retract a false affidavit) and how I can get the structure gone I would appreciate it. My neighbor has installed a 12 foot fence which I have reported to the City and the HOA but they are ignoring it.

The new deck failed inspection .but he continues to build.

Here are some Facebook links which show the issue - you can tell he made me mad!
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10156681484347255&set=a.99706367254
 
That is an update.

Sounds like you are the only one in the battle. Not sure why no one wants to join you.

As you have learned document. One of these days you will win!!!!!
 
How about some well placed spot / flood/ Bright lights??
I've already put the brightest "security lights" I could find up!! According to the plans that were submitted the second time the property line is about 4 feet inside my living room - definitely need security!
 
That is an update.

Sounds like you are the only one in the battle. Not sure why no one wants to join you.

As you have learned document. One of these days you will win!!!!!

The folk on the other side of them are his buddies and are doing some illegal building of their own. Some of the commenters on my FB post are actually neighbors and I have received emails of support. The big question they are asking is how this ever got past the HOA - I know the answer to that. Fingers crossed that my quest for justice pays off!
 
I always thought decks brought happiness... Regretting I clicked this. May you find peace.
 
I agree Glenn - they should. And I would not have objected to him having a deck at all (even though it broke zoning) if he had kept away from the property line. Now I have that ugly 12 foot wall to look at and he's planning to make the top half white vinyl. No peace or light for me!
 
At what point do your local city officials (as in city attorney) acknowledge their errors? 12' without engineering? of what material?
Consider use of sound, as in ??? as a distraction?
Love your resiliance. Where does the HOA liability lie?
 
Jane I do not believe you will win anything. Your 38,000 is gone and to continue the fight will only increase your losses. If you are enjoying the fight, well then fight on. Permits rarely expire because they only have to show some progress within last 180 days. merely adding a screw to a board could qualify as progress. If the HOA was going to help they would have by now. For them to alter course would only call into question their past actions.
 
At what point do your local city officials (as in city attorney) acknowledge their errors? 12' without engineering? of what material?
Consider use of sound, as in ??? as a distraction?
Love your resiliance. Where does the HOA liability lie?


The local city officials issued a second permit with the same (plus some additional ones) violations as the first. They are going to argue that the development was built on one lot because that's the only way they could permit it - and even then it's a stretch. Fortunately, because of my expensive land law lesson I dug deeper into the "French Door" permit and found the new deck hidden in a "copyrighted" file. This new permit gave me the opportunity to appeal again because Aniston has been made. The state Property ombudsman can now issue an opinion without the distraction of an affidavit which the city tried to retract when they realized it was going to court. If the opinion is in my favor then the city will most likely want to mediate. The city attorney has already contacted my attorney to see if I would consider dropping the case against the non-compliant structure but I've said that it's the same structure. I also reported the City attorney to the OPC for submitting an affidavit and then trying to retract it at the BOA hearing.

The HOA have totally gone against the CC&R's and will not communicate about it. They are impressed that he is a former Senator - I'm not. He threatened my job if I complained and I have that recorded.

I guess my Scottish genes want justice - not just for me but for the other people that the city has done this to - someone needs to be held accountable.


At what point do your local city officials (as in city attorney) acknowledge their errors? 12' without engineering? of what material?
Consider use of sound, as in ??? as a distraction?
Love your resiliance. Where does the HOA liability lie?
 
How about a 24 hour web cam showing the property???

I still like the floodlights on also.
 
Any democrat reps in the state legislature, that might be interested??, maybe there is a committee on building or oversees the state building dept?
 
Stay the course Jane, if we can bring down a city councilman in LA for million dollar bribes this should be winable.
 
How about a 24 hour web cam showing the property???

I still like the floodlights on also.

The floodlights are for "security"! I think some bagpipe music might help too :) I'd better not or Karma will bite me in the butt!
 
Ya you're gonna be fired.
Stay the course Jane, if we can bring down a city councilman in LA for million dollar bribes this should be winable.
I really appreciate the support! I know that he's been getting inside help as there is no way anyone would have though to hide the "new deck" in a French door permit AND then it failed inspection. I'm hoping this goes all the way!
 
Ya you're gonna be fired.

I just laughed at him and said that a former Senator should not be blackmailing neighbors - and of course he sent me personal pictures way back before this started - not too bad but definitely inappropriate - so he really doesn't have a leg to stand on!
 
Any democrat reps in the state legislature, that might be interested??, maybe there is a committee on building or oversees the state building dept?

I open to all suggestions AND if anyone knows who investigates corrupt HOA's I'd be interested in that too :)
 
Jane I do not believe you will win anything. Your 38,000 is gone and to continue the fight will only increase your losses. If you are enjoying the fight, well then fight on. Permits rarely expire because they only have to show some progress within last 180 days. merely adding a screw to a board could qualify as progress. If the HOA was going to help they would have by now. For them to alter course would only call into question their past actions.

The last permit expired and he got nailed on it because I held their feet to the fire. This, the Certificate of non-compliance!! He tried to get around that by hiding the new deck in a secret folder in the "French Door" permit so because another administrative decision was made on the deck I was able to appeal it. It will be interesting to see what shady dealings they come up with this time.
 
There are attorneys that specialize in HOA cases and look for these type of cases for only a % of the judgement.
 
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