• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

emergency escape and garage

Did you even look at the floor plan? Why don't you take a quick look and tell me where this sleeping will be going on? All those spaces are designed for transitory activity, the only space that might have lingering activity is, wait for it... the garage.

The intent of the code is clear, if access to the garage is to be limited for EERO then it would be clearly indicated as it is for egress in R311. There is no mention of "dwelling" or "garage" in section R310, only "basement" and "habitable attic". These are floor levels not spaces or uses. You are applying something that exists in your mind but not in the code. My window location opens directly to a yard, what could be plainer?
You can't get to it if obstructed by vehicles, must be accessible at "all"times. Why do you continue to disagree?
 
Check against wording in your book::::


R311.1 Means of Egress

Dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress in accordance with this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage. The required egress door shall open directly into a public way or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.
this is eero, not egress
 
You can't get to it if obstructed by vehicles, must be accessible at "all"times. Why do you continue to disagree?
how is it any more obstructed by vehicles than living spaces are obstructed by furniture? it's not, garages are typically very orderly and predictable. why do you continue to disagree?
 
OKAY it doesn't say that you can't escape through a garage. If you want to escape through a garage, be my guest....have at it. But know that there is also another way out of every basement and that's an EERO that opens up to the outside .... not the garage but directly to the outside....just as the code says.

Insist that there is a first and second floor...not a basement. The moment the word basement is uttered there is a requirement for an EERO. As it is now, there is a basement and a garage.. Were they one, the issue could be solved but they are not. One space is basement and the other is garage. Use a pen and hope for the best.
Basement: a story that is not above the grade plane. you see, a basement is not a room or a space, it is a story. And your opinion is you cannot escape from a space in the basement through the garage, but the code does not say that, or imply that. if it does show me, reference the code section. okay?
 
Basement: a story that is not above the grade plane. you see, a basement is not a room or a space, it is a story. And your opinion is you cannot escape from a space in the basement through the garage, but the code does not say that, or imply that. if it does show me, reference the code section. okay?


travel from all portions of the dwelling to the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage.


If you put a swinging door in, I would give it to you.
 
We can discuss this until we are blue and never agree and that is okay because the one you have to convince is the Building Official for you project. I can tell you the vast majority will not agree with you. However if your AHJ does then that settles it. I would not agree with your design and I would base my decision on the following

Effective Use of the International Residential Code
It is important to understand that the IRC contains coverage for what is conventional and common in residential construction practice. While the IRC will provide all of the needed coverage for most residential construction, it might not address construction practices and systems that are atypical or rarely encountered in the industry.


R104.1 General.
The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cda
We can discuss this until we are blue and never agree and that is okay because the one you have to convince is the Building Official for you project. I can tell you the vast majority will not agree with you. However if your AHJ does then that settles it. I would not agree with your design and I would base my decision on the following

Effective Use of the International Residential Code
It is important to understand that the IRC contains coverage for what is conventional and common in residential construction practice. While the IRC will provide all of the needed coverage for most residential construction, it might not address construction practices and systems that are atypical or rarely encountered in the industry.


R104.1 General.
The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.
 
"Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code."
You have not shown it is the intent or purpose of the code to limit escape from a garage from the basement. All you can do is use your authority to end any dicussion of what is allowable. You have always believed that the code prevents this, but when challenged with what the code actually says (or doesn't say) you simply cannot remove the preconceived notions that are living in your head. The code exists to keep the public safe and there is no safety concern associated with escape through and from the garage. I have demonstrated that it is actually a safer route. It is a shame you can't give up your preconceived notions.
 
Effective Use of the International Residential Code
It is important to understand that the IRC contains coverage for what is conventional and common in residential construction practice. While the IRC will provide all of the needed coverage for most residential construction, it might not address construction practices and systems that are atypical or rarely encountered in the industry.

Maybe there are not many basements in your area but is very conventional and common where I am to have a garage in a basement. A basement is a story. The garage is a room in the basement. The code does not tell you in which room the eero is to be. If they had a swinging door or a eero sized window from inside the garage or any other room to the outside I would approve it.

According to my research only 2% of fires start in a garage but over 80% start in kitchens. I think the code should not allow a means of egress or an eero in a kitchen.
 
I have clouded the stair. It leads to the main floor where the front door (means of egress) is located.
Fire originates on 1st floor, what then "T" bird? Separate and independent, direct to the public way without obstruction by only exiting from the window or door in an exterior wall. What is your beef, already built structure?
 
Fire originates on 1st floor, what then "T" bird? Separate and independent, direct to the public way without obstruction by only exiting from the window or door in an exterior wall. What is your beef, already built structure?
I do not understand your question?
 
It is not my preconceived notion that you are not meeting the intent of the code. Not every conceivable design can be addressed in a code and that is why the code gives the building official the authority to render decisions and interpretations when applying the code. I gave you one about installing a man door within your garage door and you ignored it. There are a number of ways to rectify the code for your design but your preconceived notion is there is nothing wrong with using the garage door as an EERO therefore there is no code issue in your humble opinion

Looking your plans over you do not identify an EERO anywhere on those plans
Your garage door does not meet code to be an EERO

So forget you are going through a "garage" to get to the EERO. Show me how your EERO meets R310.1.1 if it is a window or R310.3 if it is a door

R310.1.1 Operational constraints and opening control devices.
Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room without the use of keys, tools or special knowledge. Window opening control devices on windows serving as a required emergency escape and rescue opening shall comply with ASTM F2090.

R310.3 Emergency escape and rescue doors.
Where a door is provided as the required emergency escape and rescue opening, it shall be a side-hinged door or a slider. Where the opening is below the adjacent grade, it shall be provided with an area well.
 
Everyone is in agreement that a bedroom EERO has to open directly to a public way or yard. This is stated in section 310.1. What code section states the basement needs an EERO which open directly to the public way or yard, same section 310.1. There is nothing in this section even bedroom EERO that say you can not go through the garage. Would you allow a bedroom EERO through a garage, NO. Then how can you let a basement EERO through a garage.
Consider if this "not a bedroom" was being used as a game room; how then would the players escape?
 
It is not my preconceived notion that you are not meeting the intent of the code. Not every conceivable design can be addressed in a code and that is why the code gives the building official the authority to render decisions and interpretations when applying the code. I gave you one about installing a man door within your garage door and you ignored it. There are a number of ways to rectify the code for your design but your preconceived notion is there is nothing wrong with using the garage door as an EERO therefore there is no code issue in your humble opinion

Looking your plans over you do not identify an EERO anywhere on those plans
Your garage door does not meet code to be an EERO

So forget you are going through a "garage" to get to the EERO. Show me how your EERO meets R310.1.1 if it is a window or R310.3 if it is a door

R310.1.1 Operational constraints and opening control devices.
Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room without the use of keys, tools or special knowledge. Window opening control devices on windows serving as a required emergency escape and rescue opening shall comply with ASTM F2090.

R310.3 Emergency escape and rescue doors.
Where a door is provided as the required emergency escape and rescue opening, it shall be a side-hinged door or a slider. Where the opening is below the adjacent grade, it shall be provided with an area well.
We have already established that a garage door does not meet eero opening requirements, that is not disputed. The question is do you agree/disagree that the IRC does not prohibit/restrict eero from a garage, or any other space for that matter, located in a basement?
 
Consider if this "not a bedroom" was being used as a game room; how then would the players escape?
Yes, lets remove bedrooms from the equation. Everyone agrees that a bedroom requires it own eero and cannot escape from any eero outside of the room. The remaining basement requires one eero, and there is no restriction on where that eero is located in that basement. So in your game room senario players escape through this required eero, whereever it is located. In that room, or in another space. There is no restriction.
 
Top