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Commercial vending out of an old barn - need help

Gordon65

Registered User
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
12
Location
Geneseo, IL
Would like to add a commercial kitchen and an event venue to our barn. I have an 80x40 with projected mezzanine. Would like to add a small area to the south, this would be open to the 80x40 part. Would like to add all of the plumbing, bathrooms, kitchen on a building to the west. (roughly 2400 ft2. I would like this building attached to original 40x80 barn. Is there anyone on this forum that I could talk to about codes. I know most of the codes, but I would like to have it down when I talk to an architect.

I understand this will probably need to be A2 since there is a kitchen involved, but I need square footage to be over 6000 ft2. With the projected parts, I don't think I can get down to under 6000 ft2. I need this to be unsprinklered becasuse of rural nature and cost.

Can one section be A2 and another A3 and still go over total 6000ft2

If the west structure be made from steel construction would that help with construction type and ability to exceed 6000 total ft2


If we add a firewall between the west addition, can that be counted as two separate buildings, and therefore go above the total 6000 ft2 ??

Can I have the kitchen, bathroom area as accessory use and help us get over the 6000 ft2??

I read somewhere in codes that if you have large open areas around the building, that can increase area space of building??

If I have heavy timber as columns, and beams ( but not roof) can this still be considered Heavy Timber?? HT would get me to 15,000 ft2

Thanks
 
Welcome

Besides sq ft

[F] 903.2.1.2 Group A-2

Occupant load drives fire sprinklers

An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout stories containing Group A-2 occupancies and throughout all stories from the Group A-2 occupancy to and including the levels of exit discharge serving that occupancy where one of the following conditions exists:
  1. The fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).
  2. The fire area has an occupant load of 100 or more.
  3. The fire area is located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies.
 
Any similar fairly new venues around you??

If so suggest ask them what they had to do.

Plus find out sometimes there are exemptions, for stuff on farms and ranches
 
You might try to find a good code consultant, to help you.

Money spent on one might save you money down the farm road
 
Any similar fairly new venues around you??

If so suggest ask them what they had to do.

Plus find out sometimes there are exemptions, for stuff on farms and ranches
There is one venue same county. County zoning administrator will not tell me specifics of bar. I have asked, but he does not reply. Is this public knowledge from a county admin if the building is commercial?

I have received one architectural quote, 35K+. this seems out of line ??

I just to understand if this is conceivable before I get in deep with too much money with an architect.

Thought I could get some good advice on here.

thanks
 
Use Type VA Construction.
thanks, from what I understand VA construction is protected construction. I have an old dairy barn with wood everywhere. I have metal cladding on roof. I would think that this is a VB construction?

I will have new smaller buildings that could have different components, but since they are attached, I believe I have to take the least restrictive construction??

How do I get to that VA construction with what I have for this barn.

Thanks
 
Thanks,

Chapter 9 has different values than what I see in the below Table 506.2

It is conflicting. Which table is correct?




506.2 Allowable Area Determination


The allowable area of a building shall be determined in accordance with the applicable provisions of Sections 506.2.1 through 506.2.4 and Section 506.3.

TABLE 506.2a, b

ALLOWABLE AREA FACTOR (At = NS, S1, S13R, or SM, as applicable) IN SQUARE FEET
OCCUPANCY
CLASSIFICATION
SEE FOOTNOTESTYPE OF CONSTRUCTION
TYPE ITYPE IITYPE IIITYPE IVTYPE V
ABABABHTAB
A-1NSULUL15,5008,50014,0008,50015,00011,5005,500
S1ULUL62,00034,00056,00034,00060,00046,00022,000
SMULUL46,50025,50042,00025,50045,00034,50016,500
A-2NSULUL15,5009,50014,0009,50015,00011,5006,000
S1ULUL62,00038,00056,00038,00060,00046,00024,000
SMULUL46,50028,50042,00028,50045,00034,50018,000
A-3NSULUL15,5009,50014,0009,50015,00011,5006,000
S1ULUL62,00038,00056,00038,00060,00046,00024,000
SMULUL46,50028,50042,00028,50045,00034,50018,000
A-4NSULUL15,5009,50014,0009,50015,00011,5006,000
S1ULUL62,00038,00056,00038,00060,00046,00024,000
SMULUL46,50028,50042,00028,50045,00034,50018,000
A-5NSULULULULULULULULUL
S1
SM
BNSULUL37,50023,00028,50019,00036,00018,0009,000
S1ULUL



0
(Equation 5-4)
where:
 
Table 506.2 is for determining the allowable area--it does not require you to install sprinklers. All this table provides is that if you sprinkler the building, you get more floor area for a given construction type and occupancy group.

On the other hand, Chapter 9 establishes sprinkler requirements, and as @cda pointed out if you have a fire area greater than 5,000 sq. ft. or the occupant load exceeds 100, then you are required to have a sprinkler system installed unless you can get a waiver from the local building department and/or fire department; however, that may come with several restrictions/conditions.
 
Table 506.2 is for determining the allowable area--it does not require you to install sprinklers. All this table provides is that if you sprinkler the building, you get more floor area for a given construction type and occupancy group.

On the other hand, Chapter 9 establishes sprinkler requirements, and as @cda pointed out if you have a fire area greater than 5,000 sq. ft. or the occupant load exceeds 100, then you are required to have a sprinkler system installed unless you can get a waiver from the local building department and/or fire department; however, that may come with several restrictions/conditions.
Thanks! In an earlier reply to construction types, you mentioned that I should use type VA construction. How can I alter my building, as I think it stands currently as a VB ( wood frame, wood on side wall, wood on roof)

I plan to insulate either with sips or spray foam or a combo. Can I alter construction types with simple modifications to roof, side wall?

If brick/stone the walls will that get me to type III construction?
 
Thanks! In an earlier reply to construction types, you mentioned that I should use type VA construction. How can I alter my building, as I think it stands currently as a VB ( wood frame, wood on side wall, wood on roof)

I plan to insulate either with sips or spray foam or a combo. Can I alter construction types with simple modifications to roof, side wall?

If brick/stone the walls will that get me to type III construction?


Sounds like you need a Code Consultant

prior to an Architect.

The Code Consultant can look at the entire picture and give you a few proposals.

You can get advice here, but you have to many variables to consider.
 
Sounds like you need a Code Consultant

prior to an Architect.

The Code Consultant can look at the entire picture and give you a few proposals.

You can get advice here, but you have to many variables to consider.
Thanks, did not know a code consultant existed. Just figured that was the architects job.

What would be a ballpark cost of a code consultant? Would they be able to do this virtual or would they need to be on site once.
 
Thanks, did not know a code consultant existed. Just figured that was the architects job.

What would be a ballpark cost of a code consultant? Would they be able to do this virtual or would they need to be on site once.

Will let others throw out cost

Not a consultant, but I would do at least one site visit
 
Thanks, did not know a code consultant existed. Just figured that was the architects job.

What would be a ballpark cost of a code consultant? Would they be able to do this virtual or would they need to be on site once.

I do not know any of these

You are a little between there and there

But a start




Others on the forum may know some
 
They might refer you to other companies, because the size of the job.

You might call the building official in Davenport , Peoria, Rockford and see if they have a few to call
 
I did a few plan reviews for the same kind of thing. It does not look good for you to get a permit without requiring sprinklers. It would be a gamble and have to be a decision from an appeals board after you spent money on an architect, a permit application and a plan review. You might have better odds spending your money on the lottery.
 
? Are you an AG property? If so is a commercial use allowed in your zone?
If so how will you address issues of ADA: parking and facility compliance?
Sanitation for this use?
 
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