Furnace plugged into the wall

[DMartin]

pilotless WH?

Not sure yet. only has the gas line stubbed through the wall so far.

 

[ADAguy]

What do the permit plans call for?

 

[north star]

# ~ # ~ #

" pilotless WH ? "

Yes, ....instantaneous type......Only has an ignitor
for the gas fuel.

# ~ # ~ #

 

[Jenks]

But (B) on there gives the specific appliances allowed and it is the normal ones we see plugged in Disposal, DW, Wall oven, and range hood. I would have to go back and look at manufacturer spec on the appliance but I would assume it does not state to plug it in.

It’s all about lobbyists and money that make up these absolutely unexplained reasons . Ground disconnected neutral disconnected live disconnected. Love it when people respond it’s the code!!! Please have the nut to exsplain why they made it code. Bet you can’t come up with something that makes sense.

 

[ICE]

It’s all about lobbyists and money that make up these absolutely unexplained reasons . Ground disconnected neutral disconnected live disconnected. Love it when people respond it’s the code!!! Please have the nut to exsplain why they made it code. Bet you can’t come up with something that makes sense.

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, Use, and Listing (product Certification) of equipment.
(B) Installation and Use.
Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

If a manufacturer had a furnace evaluated with a cord and attachment plug the furnace would leave the factory so equipped. That this is not the case and nowhere in the installation instructions is there a mention of a cord and attachment plug, it is a listing violation to add a cord and attachment plug.

Given the vagaries of the built environment and the potential for damage to an exposed power cord, manufacturers opted to not be associated with a rat chewed power cord that lit the house on fire.

Your contention that a code official must understand the why behind every code is ridiculous. While I can find the answer to that question nearly every time, seldom do I want to and never do I need to.,

 

[Paul Sweet]

"It’s all about lobbyists and money that make up these absolutely unexplained reasons . Ground disconnected neutral disconnected live disconnected. Love it when people respond it’s the code!!! Please have the nut to exsplain why they made it code. Bet you can’t come up with something that makes sense."

IMC 304.1[Installation] General
Equipment and appliances shall be installed as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with the terms of the listing, the manufacturer's installation instructions and this code. Manufacturer's installation instructions shall be available on the job site at the time of inspection.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I have seen plugs arch and if there was a gas leak in the room and some one hastily pulls the plug out this could cause an ignition source in the room

Do you not allow the required receptacle that is required to be in the room with the heater? Aren't you afraid that any receptacle in the room could make a spark when used?
What cda says:

Require the manufacture install instructions

See what they say about wiring it!!!!

 

[ADAguy]

NEC 422.33, Disconnection or PERMANENTLY connected appliances, see A & C

Since the NEC does not call out the furnace or water heater, I think the key here is NEC 422.31 Disconnection or PERMANENTLY connected appliances. Rating: 1/8 HP and not over 300-Volts-Amperes. And I'd throw in the old saying "What ever the manufactures requires or sez!"

Over 300 Volt-Amperes, it specifically states in NEC 422.31 (B) branch circuit switch or circuit breaker is within site. Also see NEC 422.32

I once inspected a small Rheem WH with less than 300V that came with a pre-wired plug and cord.

The garbage disposal and DW is typically over 1/8 hp and uses a cord and plug.

What household appliances use this small of HP? Scratching.....picking... scratching again?

Your wife's Kitchen-aid mixer has a 1.3 HP motor, with plug and cord but it's not a permanent fixture it just looks like one on the counter! You could probably run the wheels of a go-cart with that HP...er....er.....

Is the furnace a fixed in place or just a Home Depot floor stand? Connected to a wall stat?

 

[SCBO1]

Just a little adder here, I saw ICE post showing a flat grey appliance plug, I be...live the plug to a garbage disposer and dishwasher has a cord length requirement 3ft and 5ft comes to mind.

What's the maximum length your gonna allow that furnace plug cord?

Are you gonna make it a dedicated single plug receptacle? or allow a duplex?

Just curious as a gato!

 

[Glenn]

If a manufacturer had a furnace evaluated with a cord and attachment plug the furnace would leave the factory so equipped. That this is not the case and nowhere in the installation instructions is there a mention of a cord and attachment plug, it is a listing violation to add a cord and attachment plug.

Given the vagaries of the built environment and the potential for damage to an exposed power cord, manufacturers opted to not be associated with a rat chewed power cord that lit the house on fire.

This last statement is it. You want "intent and purpose", here it is. Cord and plug should be used only where people need a cord and plug. Furnace isn't it. Yes, I do realize there are listed electric water heaters with cord and plug.

Don't be afraid to Google "vagaries" before you respond. I did.

 

[SCBO1]

IRC 2012 Table 4101.3 flexible cord length for:

Garbage disposal maximum cord length 36-inches
Dishwasher maximum cord length 48-inches.

Code for a furnace cord length? Couldn't find where its permitted.

I suspect ICE must have been an English teacher before he became a "magnate!"

 

[Paul Sweet]

The code allows a disconnect switch in the same room, with NMC to the furnace. A disconnect would have the same arcing potential as pulling a plug out, and rats can chew NMC just as well as a cord.

A shorter cord (that doesn't require loops and a twisty-tie) of the correct ampacity and temperature rating, with a single twist-lock outlet should provide equivalent safety. They should request a code modification if they want to do that.

 

[Jenks]

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, Use, and Listing (product Certification) of equipment.
(B) Installation and Use.
Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

If a manufacturer had a furnace evaluated with a cord and attachment plug the furnace would leave the factory so equipped. That this is not the case and nowhere in the installation instructions is there a mention of a cord and attachment plug, it is a listing violation to add a cord and attachment plug.

Given the vagaries of the built environment and the potential for damage to an exposed power cord, manufacturers opted to not be associated with a rat chewed power cord that lit the house on fire.

Your contention that a code official must understand the why behind every code is ridiculous. While I can find the answer to that question nearly every time, seldom do I want to and never do I need to.,

Mice and rats are more likely to chew the Romex buried in the wall. I would rather exit the wall.(6' above the floor) Attach a plug on one end and a single outlet. I can then unplug it , and attach to a generator , during a power outage. Is there no way for a backfeed to municipal power lines then? I think,well I know! There is not. Thanks anyway but your answer still makes no sense why they have the right to say can't do it!

 

[Jenks]

Do you not allow the required receptacle that is required to be in the room with the heater? Aren't you afraid that any receptacle in the room could make a spark when used?
What cda says:

Most have have a switch that is attached on the furnace. They create arcs when switched.

 

[ICE]

Thanks anyway but your answer still makes no sense why they have the right to say can't do it!

It has never been my intention to make sense to the crowd that visits here. If a select few get it...well then I’m on track.

 

[Jenks]

It has never been my intention to make sense to the crowd that visits here. If a select few get it...well then I’m on track.

Understood ...but in my original post , I said : don't quote the code . Tell me why it's a code for this particular case. I get that inspectors don't know why . Sounds like my parents when they used to say "because I Said so"

 

[Jenks]

Just a little adder here, I saw ICE post showing a flat grey appliance plug, I be...live the plug to a garbage disposer and dishwasher has a cord length requirement 3ft and 5ft comes to mind.

What's the maximum length your gonna allow that furnace plug cord?

Are you gonna make it a dedicated single plug receptacle? or allow a duplex?

Just curious as a gato!

Just a single plug receptacle 6' off the floor with a 1 ' cord 14/3

 

[ICE]

For most people, inspectors and everybody else, the code is the reason why.
Was a decision made to not install a factory cord as a cost cutting measure? Did every manufacturer reach the same conclusion? Is the lack of a cord a quirk of the Standard used to evaluate a furnace? Is it the reason I posited? If you must have an answer, do what I do when confronted with such a question and ask the manufactures.

 

[ICE]

Just a single plug receptacle 6' off the floor with a 1 ' cord 14/3

That earns a correction.

 

[Jenks]

For most people, inspectors and everybody else, the code is the reason why.
Was a decision made to not install a factory cord as a cost cutting measure? Did every manufacturer reach the same conclusion? Is the lack of a cord a quirk of the Standard used to evaluate a furnace? Is it the reason I posited? If you must have an answer, do what I do when confronted with such a question and ask the manufactures.

Ok I understand. It's just I thought we lived in the United States. A FREE country. So I get a little upset when people like the inspectors,people who write the codes, tell us what we can and cannot do. Especially when it's totally safe and their reasons are not explained.

 

[Joe Engel]

Ok I understand. It's just I thought we lived in the United States. A FREE country. So I get a little upset when people like the inspectors,people who write the codes, tell us what we can and cannot do. Especially when it's totally safe and their reasons are not explained.

Your lack of code knowledge is showing. Building codes are not written to show “common sense”, they are written to provide a basic level of safety and guidance for the consumer and installer. Bottom line is the manufacturer rules, always. They don’t supply a cord for a reason, that’s what common sense should pick up on not that “ totally safe and their reasons are not explained. “

 

[classicT]

Ok I understand. It's just I thought we lived in the United States. A FREE country. So I get a little upset when people like the inspectors,people who write the codes, tell us what we can and cannot do. Especially when it's totally safe and their reasons are not explained.

HAHAHAHA.... you think that inspectors "write the codes". Yup, like Joe said, "Your lack of code knowledge is showing."

Sure, ICC has governmental voting members, but the NEC (by NFPA) is a similar, but wholly different animal.

 

[rogerpa]

Sure, ICC has governmental voting members, but the NEC (by NFPA) is a similar, but wholly different animal.

Not exactly. The ICC reprints the NFPA 70 (NEC) as Part VIII Electrical

2015 IRC
This Electrical Part (Chapters 34 through 43) is produced and copyrighted by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and is based on the 2014 National Electrical Code® (NEC®) (NFPA 70®-2014), copyright 2013, National Fire Protection Association, all rights reserved. Use of the Electrical Part is pursuant to license with the NFPA.

 

[SCBO1]

Could someone please submit a code change and then in the future I can explain why the code allows a furnace to have a 1-ft plug in cord!

Next IRC code change is for the 2024 code and then the AHJ would need to adopt.

Question, this new code change your submitting, can that furnace receptacle be a duplex receptacle? I want to install a 6-way tap so I can live in my Mom's basement and hook up my microwave, toaster, computer, TV, Gameboy and grow light! That way if mom forgets to pay power bill and the POCO shuts the power off I can hook up my gas powered generator, with my charred 50-ft extension cord I got form LetGo, that I think came from the ghost ship.

Humm....maybe it's just safer to obey the speed limit.