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  1. R

    Any NFPA 101 gurus out there?

    Sorry missed cooking vs. "transientness" at first. The problem is short term rentals in multiple dwellings puts these both together. My "logic" says that if I can have multiple dwelling units with kitchens as a hotel or I can have multiple dwelling units as an apartment building with fewer...
  2. R

    Any NFPA 101 gurus out there?

    Transient occupancy means the occupants are less familiar with the building, any issues in the building, and have a less intimate "relationship" to other occupants. This reduces situational awareness, means occupants are less likely to warn others of a problem and are more likely to have an...
  3. R

    Emergency Egress

    Larry, Unfortunately your question leads us to far more questions to determine proper answer. Different types of commercial uses have different egress requirements, with the numbers of occupants being different and the travel distances also varying. Other things such as a building sprinkler...
  4. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    I'd love the link or pdf on that NFPA stat. Both those numbers are much higher than the highest effectiveness I've ever seen quoted anywhere.
  5. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    So $55 sqft to sprinkler 4000 sq.ft.home? Sorry a bit more than the highest prices we see here in an area where only the individual municipalities have adopted the requirements. Highest I've heard locally was $8/sqft. and that was off the supply grid and small overall square footage. Of course...
  6. R

    smoke detector height on walls

    Whoops, didn't read carefully or far enough, so it appears that the upper limit has actually been lifted? It should be somewhat obvious that too low will just delay alarm activation, so that would seem to be a keeper! Thanks to FMWB and CDA for the update.
  7. R

    smoke detector height on walls

    I don't think this has gone away, but I recall an article somewhat recently speaking to that effect based on testing disproving the theory that smoke doesn't reach the corners?
  8. R

    smoke detector height on walls

    I agree and am looking forward to it, but those difficult to reach places will still pose a functionality problem as they cannot be routinely checked, cannot be "hushed" and cannot be cleaned or blown out readily. Much like fie extinguishers the reason for the monthly check is to ensure a bad...
  9. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

  10. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    So require they be operational. Make a rule for 10 year inspection/recertifications, they need very little interaction. 60% over the life of a building? What was the life span they used? I can't imagine that every part of a building is likely to see the same degradation. Will 60% of buildings...
  11. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    I must have misinterpreted what you were addressing. I don't see mandating these kitchen suppression systems, but if people want them, fine, but I would not support using them to eliminate the need for sprinklers as has been suggested by others and the kitchen system folks. Secondly, it's not...
  12. R

    smoke detector height on walls

    Again there's the Code then there's what is functional. While most often the higher the better for rapid response (other than the 4-12 " down thing, which I believe I read might go away), the issue in residential is can the owner test it monthly? Can they change the batteries? If the unit is too...
  13. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    Meant to be on fire? Damn your kitchen must be different than mine! Don't have the stats in front of me, and in all honestly, don't see the point in wasting time trying to convince those not willing to listen. I doubt you'll see the requirements go away, Slowly more places are adopting the...
  14. R

    Fire Alarm control unit

    So it sounds like the only initiation device is the flow switch to the sprinkler system and maybe single manual pull somewhere in the overall building? Do you have a larger building with multiple tenants spaces and they are all covered by the same sprinkler system? I'm assuming the overall...
  15. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    While sprinklers are designed to protect the occupants they are extremely effective in suppressing fires. It will be nearly impossible to get an sprinkler design to cover property protection in one and two family or residential homes where there is very little enforcement of how the dwelling...
  16. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    Won't ever happen and would be a large step in the wrong direction. New homes are built to burn, fires are burning hotter, faster and engineered wood products are failing in short times. As more new house become old and the overall housing stock transitions from tradition legacy construction to...
  17. R

    Residential range-top fire suppression system

    I don't think that's the case at all. They maybe required by the municipal ordinances and rule, but I doubt they extend beyond their intent which appears to be range top suppression. Can't see it having any effect on true sprinkler requirements.
  18. R

    2nd unit

    Not sure the building code side, but in NFPA 101 I think you can call it mixed use occupancy and the strictest of the two (same) occupancies apply! Actually I'm pretty confident in saying it's not even needed though, as nothing in Chapter 24 requires a fire rated separation between the two...
  19. R

    2nd unit

    As Chad noted above, our experience is that it is not possible to get an NFPA 13D system approved in a partial building. This means we'd need a true 2 hr separation to require the sprinklers in one of the two units (the added one). We have had some real growing pains with this as our...
  20. R

    You learn something all the time "Five minute rule"

    We require an "old style" water motor gong still. You can use the electric switch for building alarms and notification, but nothing beat hearing the water motor gong on arrival. Typically you can tell if this was an water pressure problem or a significant flow by the speed of the gong, much...
  21. R

    ROBO fire sprinkler

    Well, I'm skeptical of the value at first blush. One, and I realize it in it's infancy: it's ugly so that's a big factor in any residential type occupancy and many others. Two, wall mounted unless very near the ceiling allows for typical storage to block it. Three: What's the need? The brief...
  22. R

    Fire Extinguisher - Go out door and down hall to get to it?

    So I'm going to buck the trend and put a different spin on this: While the Code can be very specific and detailed, I try not to let that get the way of its intent. I like fire extinguishers to be mounted near the door or even better yet, just outside the door. maybe down the hall is a stretch...
  23. R

    Standpipe direct access to exterior?

    Most often the standpipe outlets are located in a fire rated enclosed stair tower. This allows the FD to enter at one level and make all the requisite connections and preparations in the safety of the protected stairway, before opening the door to the affected hall/floor. As noted, most rated...
  24. R

    Windowless bedroom.

    Rogerpa: Thanks for the link, that looks a lot like NFPA 101. We use 101 extensively, not a fan of the new "interpretation" of the 24.2 section for existing windows. Basically allowing the R/O to be 5.0 if the window is wood or vinyl and the operable area meets the minimum 20x24 dimensions...
  25. R

    Unsprinklered attic?

    Here's a little firefighter training evolution that explains the above: take two plastic ziplock bags. Hold one up and put a light below it (get ready to submerge it in water). Now take the second one, fill it with water and do the same thing. The water absorbs the heat and will greatly extend...
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