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2-hour seperation to save a 155 year old tin ceiling

"Anyone want to say if live work helps???

cda,

Yes, it appears it could work. They would still have to install a sprinkler system, which they were trying to avoid. But, yes, they could dodge the separation requirement though.

[F] 419.5 Fire protection. The live/work unit shall be provided with a monitored fire alarm system where required by Section 907.2.9 and an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.2.8.

They meet the square foot requirements for the size overall, and the size of the business to residential ratio.

419.1.1 Limitations. All of the following shall apply to live/work areas:
1. The live/work unit is permitted to be not greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2 ) in area.
2. The nonresidential area is permitted to be not more than 50 percent of the area of each live/work unit.
3. The nonresidential area function shall be limited to the first or main floor only of the live/work unit.
4. Not more than five nonresidential workers or employees are allowed to occupy the nonresidential area at any one time.


Installing a fire sprinkler system in the walls would be an option to avoid penetrating the historic tin ceiling.

BTW, the analysis must have been using the 2015, Chapter's 13 and 14 were reversed.
 
Don't forget acoustic separation between residential and commercial. Most times this can only be achieved with RC channels on the ceiling (or a generous topping slab above). If this was analyzed as non-separated (as Redeyefly suggested), would the B occupancy be the most hazardous or the R? Also, does the building have any historical designation? If so, the historical building code has exceptions to help preserve original items.
 
I want to thank everyone for the input. We're getting quotes now for a sprinkler system. The city ran a dedicated fire-water line in the street 15 years ago, and there's a valve four our building five feet from the front of the building. We just have to bust open the sidewalk. Sidewall sprinkler isn't an option as we're in a row of 1855 buildings.

Acoustics shouldn't be a problem (I didn't see or hear of any specific requirement from the architect or city). Above the tin ceiling the floor assemble will be the original floor-boards, 23/32" plywood subfloor, 1/2" quickcrete over the electric radiant floor system, and then 3/4" hardwood.
 
I want to thank everyone for the input. We're getting quotes now for a sprinkler system. The city ran a dedicated fire-water line in the street 15 years ago, and there's a valve four our building five feet from the front of the building. We just have to bust open the sidewalk. Sidewall sprinkler isn't an option as we're in a row of 1855 buildings.

Acoustics shouldn't be a problem (I didn't see or hear of any specific requirement from the architect or city). Above the tin ceiling the floor assemble will be the original floor-boards, 23/32" plywood subfloor, 1/2" quickcrete over the electric radiant floor system, and then 3/4" hardwood.


Suggest you get 2-3 fire sprinkler companies to look at it, there are many ways to get pipe and sprinklers in strange places.

You may need a four inch line tap off the street main, and coming into the building
 
I want to thank everyone for the input. We're getting quotes now for a sprinkler system. The city ran a dedicated fire-water line in the street 15 years ago, and there's a valve four our building five feet from the front of the building. We just have to bust open the sidewalk. Sidewall sprinkler isn't an option as we're in a row of 1855 buildings.

Acoustics shouldn't be a problem (I didn't see or hear of any specific requirement from the architect or city). Above the tin ceiling the floor assemble will be the original floor-boards, 23/32" plywood subfloor, 1/2" quickcrete over the electric radiant floor system, and then 3/4" hardwood.
I assume you mean "gypcrete" instead of "quickcrete". Very likely you will need an acoustic mat below the gypcrete to get your sound rating. You'll need to meet 50 STC & IIC. It's the IIC that is difficult to achieve with hard surface flooring, acoustic mat works well to get to the required IIC.
 
If you are going to install a fire sprinkler system

Look at chapter 4 live work, to see if it helps you save money!!!!!!!!!!
 
If you are going to install a fire sprinkler system

Look at chapter 4 live work, to see if it helps you save money!!!!!!!!!!
CDA, you are really passionate about a Live/Work unit in this thread.

For the benefit of Resident Artist, here are the limitations that you must be able to comply with for a Live/Work Unit.

419.1.1 Limitations
All of the following shall apply to live/work areas:
  1. The live/work unit is permitted to be not greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) in area.
  2. The nonresidential area is permitted to be not more than 50 percent of the area of each live/work unit.
  3. The nonresidential area function shall be limited to the first or main floor only of the live/work unit.
  4. Not more than five nonresidential workers or employees are allowed to occupy the nonresidential area at any one time.
 
Chapter 4? Can anyone give me a preview of how this helps with sprinklers?

We easily meet all of the 419.1.1 limitations.
 
Chapter 4? Can anyone give me a preview of how this helps with sprinklers?

We easily meet all of the 419.1.1 limitations.


From post 25 up the road, courtesy of Fatboy





"Anyone want to say if live work helps???

cda,

Yes, it appears it could work. They would still have to install a sprinkler system, which they were trying to avoid. But, yes, they could dodge the separation requirement though.

[F] 419.5 Fire protection. The live/work unit shall be provided with a monitored fire alarm system where required by Section 907.2.9 and an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.2.8.

They meet the square foot requirements for the size overall, and the size of the business to residential ratio.

419.1.1 Limitations. All of the following shall apply to live/work areas:
1. The live/work unit is permitted to be not greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2 ) in area.
2. The nonresidential area is permitted to be not more than 50 percent of the area of each live/work unit.
3. The nonresidential area function shall be limited to the first or main floor only of the live/work unit.
4. Not more than five nonresidential workers or employees are allowed to occupy the nonresidential area at any one time.


Installing a fire sprinkler system in the walls would be an option to avoid penetrating the historic tin ceiling.

BTW, the analysis must have been using the 2015, Chapter's 13 and 14 were reversed.
 
"I want to thank everyone for the input. We're getting quotes now for a sprinkler system. The city ran a dedicated fire-water line in the street 15 years ago, and there's a valve four our building five feet from the front of the building. We just have to bust open the sidewalk. Sidewall sprinkler isn't an option as we're in a row of 1855 buildings."

That is great, probably saved you about $15,000, at least around here, to get it from the main in the street, to that close to your building.
 
Going towards Paul's comment of obscuring details on the tins, 45 mils, equilvalent of nine layers of 6 mil plastic sheeting?
 
Is it possible to carefully take down the tin ceiling, apply the flame-off stuff to what is likely a lath & plaster ceiling or you can apply a 1/2" gypsum board and then the spray on that flame-off and then put the tin ceiling back up. Just wondering if that would be possible? A thought. The tin ceiling are usually a "tile" not one singular piece the size of the room(s). Care would need to be taken when removing the tin and then reinstalling it back up afterwards. If you need add a gypsum board because there is no lath & plaster behind the tin ceiling then you can add the flame off stuff and then add your tin ceiling back up and wall mouldings at a slightly lower level (~1/2 to 5/8"). It might be doable without compromising the historic character.
 
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