2nd exit through stairwell?

[Yikes]

Take a look at the very crude sketch below. 4 story R-2 occupancy, 9 apartment per floor. Two egress stair enclosures provided, both 2-hour rated. Corridor is one hour rated.
Apartments #8 and 9 have their entry/exit doors located within the stair tower t the bottom of the sketch, which is allowed since the apartments are normally occupied spaces.
Their second means of egress is to go out of this 2-hour stair enclosure into the one-hour enclosure.

1. Plan checker is saying that the one-hour corridor now needs to become 2-hour so as not to reduce the fire rating along the egress path for apartments #8 and 9.
2. It's my contention that this has to do with REQUIRED fire rating along the egress path. In other words, for Apts. 8 and 9, their pathway to the other stair (near Apt. 3) only needed to be a one-hour corridor. The fact that it went through a 2 hour stairwell just means that Apts 8 and 9 got extra protection for the first part of the pathway.

Am I correct, or incorrect?

 

[steveray]

You are probably correct...Mainly because I am guessing 8 and 9 only need the one exit....I would ask for a code section...

 

[JPohling]

When would the occupants of #8 and #9 have the ability to go in two distinct egress directions? What is the common path dimension? Can it be satisfied within the 2 Hr enclosure? If not that will be an issue and I think the reduction of rating may become an issue.

 

[Yikes]

On upper floors with more than 4 units, all stories need 2 means of egress, and we have 2 stairs.
For Apts. #8 and 9, CPET finishes at the top of the stair landing. At that point they can continue down the stair, or go into the 1 hour corridor to the other stair.

The plan checker is saying that EVERY area on the floor needs two means of egress, and the level of fire safety cannot be diminished along the egress path.
OK, if that's true, what about the main stair landings themselves? Pretend for a moment that Apts. 8 and 9 don't exist, and an occupant is on the main stair landing in yellow below. Howe does he have 2 means of egress from that landing, unless he goes into the one hour corridor, which has a lower rating?
Obviously, the code doesn't require all corridors to be 2 hour rated jut because they connect to a stairwell that is 2 hour rated.

 

[classicT]

Personally, I have a hard time wrapping my head around a whole apartment unit, in this case two units, being considered as normally occupied space. Not saying that they aren't, but I'd really have to think about that. A unit could reasonably be unoccupied for 8-10hrs a day. That said, a business occupancy is unoccupied typically overnight; although the building as a whole would be unoccupied. In this case, the building could have occupants in the other portion of the building, but these units unoccupied. My mind is torn... not sure how to go.

 

[steveray]

The plan checker is saying that EVERY area on the floor needs two means of egress

The plan checker is wrong and dumb.....Does the bathroom in the unit have 2 MOE? Does the unit itself have 2 MOE?

 

[redeyedfly]

Personally, I have a hard time wrapping my head around a whole apartment unit, in this case two units, being considered as normally occupied space. Not saying that they aren't, but I'd really have to think about that. A unit could reasonably be unoccupied for 8-10hrs a day. That said, a business occupancy is unoccupied typically overnight; although the building as a whole would be unoccupied. In this case, the building could have occupants in the other portion of the building, but these units unoccupied. My mind is torn... not sure how to go.

I think you completely misunderstand what they mean by "normally occupied". It means, not a closet or maintenance area.

 

[redeyedfly]

On upper floors with more than 4 units, all stories need 2 means of egress, and we have 2 stairs.
For Apts. #8 and 9, CPET finishes at the top of the stair landing. At that point they can continue down the stair, or go into the 1 hour corridor to the other stair.

The plan checker is saying that EVERY area on the floor needs two means of egress, and the level of fire safety cannot be diminished along the egress path.
OK, if that's true, what about the main stair landings themselves? Pretend for a moment that Apts. 8 and 9 don't exist, and an occupant is on the main stair landing in yellow below. Howe does he have 2 means of egress from that landing, unless he goes into the one hour corridor, which has a lower rating?
Obviously, the code doesn't require all corridors to be 2 hour rated jut because they connect to a stairwell that is 2 hour rated.

View attachment 11368

Umm, you're already in an exit...

 

[redeyedfly]

You are probably correct...Mainly because I am guessing 8 and 9 only need the one exit....I would ask for a code section...

They might only need one exit but then you would definitely need an EERO 1030.1

 

[steveray]

They might only need one exit but then you would definitely need an EERO 1030.1

Absolutely

 

[classicT]

I think you completely misunderstand what they mean by "normally occupied". It means, not a closet or maintenance area.

Nope... I do not.

My struggle is in the fact that an apartment could sit vacant. May be for 8-10 hours during the work day. Could be 2 days to 2 weeks for a vacation. Could be multiple weeks to months between leases.

I simply indicated that I was thinking on the matter, so I fail to understand how you can assess that I "completely misunderstand".

 

[steveray]

Nope... I do not.

My struggle is in the fact that an apartment could sit vacant. May be for 8-10 hours during the work day. Could be 2 days to 2 weeks for a vacation. Could be multiple weeks to months between leases.

I simply indicated that I was thinking on the matter, so I fail to understand how you can assess that I "completely misunderstand".

Settle down kids...the argument is with the words, not each other....LOL...I agree as I have struggled with "normally occupied" before....