Another Single Family vs Two Family dwelling scenario

[Buelligan]

I see a recent discussion but have a different scenario and didn't want to confuse the subject.

Couple of different scenarios here:

1. Finished Single family home. Owner wants to finish basement with dwelling unit compliant facilities (independent sleeping, cooking, sanitation etc.) This will be for their "parents or kids" and will not be rented. Does the fact that it meets the dwelling unit definition make the separation requirements apply? Remember , single family and nothing I see says a "dwelling" can't contain as many kitchens, bedrooms, bathrooms etc. as an occupant wants. Some define this as a "mother-in-law suite" and is allowed by ordinances. My point being that, code does not mandate that, simply providing "independent" facilities designates a "duplex" or "two family Dwelling", therefore also not required to fire separate. It implies that in order to have a two family dwelling one must provide these independent facilities.

2. Same situation but the intent is to rent it out. That to me is very clear and will require separation as a second "dwelling unit" for an independent occupant. But, our question in this scenario would be, does the interior basement stair need to be removed or just provide a fire rated door and fire rated stair enclosure? Also would it require a separation of utility services (electric water and sewer service.)?

Here are a few additional questions as well. In the first scenario, say the parents or kids move out. Can the owners now rent to anybody without processing a new permit for a two family dwelling? Does code define "family"? Say two close friends want to share a single family dwelling but want separate facilities? They consider themselves "family", been like sisters since childhood. In this day and age we can't define what people consider family or can we?

This is a very muddy area for us as we have three ordinances that provide or require different things. Zoning, Building Code and Impact fees. Our Impact Fee only applies to new dwellings. Some interpret the Impact fee as required, regardless of separation. Others interpret no fee if it is still a single family with multiple "dwelling unit" facilities for one family (in law suite).

We need to nail this down as best as we can so we can clean up and define how we will handle these situations. Getting to be a big issue these days. Air BNB is another WHOLE subject LOL

 

[mtlogcabin]

If the basement and the people in the basement also have free access to the upper level we have considered this one unit. If they do not have free access then it is two separate dwelling units and all the codes apply.
After we are gone who knows what happens with building and who is residing in it.

 

[DMartin]

Zoning may have something to say on the matter. normally that is where you will run into the issues. Building code itself does not specify.

 

[DMartin]

Zoning may have something to say on the matter. normally that is where you will run into the issues. Building code itself does not specify.

I would question why if someone was to come in asking this. would be concerned if they were adding an ADU. and if it is an ADU (which it will be) then I would require it to be fire protected. This family may want it for reletives the next owner will want it for rental property and the the protection is not provided. I woul;d not want my name opn that.

 

[Buelligan]

If the basement and the people in the basement also have free access to the upper level we have considered this one unit. If they do not have free access then it is two separate dwelling units and all the codes apply.
After we are gone who knows what happens with building and who is residing in it.

So in your case, the actual "use" as a "rental" to strangers (not family) would be irrelevant if the free access remains? I like where you are going, just want to clarify.

 

[Buelligan]

I would question why if someone was to come in asking this. would be concerned if they were adding an ADU. and if it is an ADU (which it will be) then I would require it to be fire protected. This family may want it for reletives the next owner will want it for rental property and the the protection is not provided. I woul;d not want my name opn that.

This is part of the issue we are dealing with.

But in our case the "$6200" impact fee will change the intended use REAL QUICK! They will then resubmit as a mother in law and remove one of the "facilities". Take out the stove for instance (no provision for cooking, not a separate dwelling unit). We all know the situation will change after we final it out. But That is not my concern if they choose to skirt the law. We just need to be clear on the U&O what the use was at final approval.

My concern is when does fire separation become mandatory? Can you have provisions for two separate dwelling units in the same dwelling and NOT be required to fire separate? Or does providing the second "dwelling unit" facilities mandate the fire separation?

 

[Buelligan]

If the basement and the people in the basement also have free access to the upper level we have considered this one unit. If they do not have free access then it is two separate dwelling units and all the codes apply.
After we are gone who knows what happens with building and who is residing in it.

Secondly our code official wants the impact fee charged for the second family regardless of separation. So that is also a muddy situation I am trying to nail down for future issues.

 

[mtlogcabin]

So in your case, the actual "use" as a "rental" to strangers (not family) would be irrelevant if the free access remains? I like where you are going, just want to clarify.

Correct. Zoning actually came up with the free access through out answer as being a "family unit" since that can no longer be legally defined as by marriage or blood

 

[ADAguy]

interesting quandary.

 

[JCraver]

You can have as many kitchens, bathrooms, bedrooms, etc. in your house as you want. The building code doesn't care, and neither should a code official or a building inspector. If it's YOUR house, and you're not renting portions of it for income, then it's a single-family home. No separation is required.

If a future owner wants to separate the levels and rent one portion or the other then it's on them to apply for a permit and do it correctly.

We can't and shouldn't regulate "what-ifs", or try to predict the future. Deal with the structure and use in front of you right now - a sfd with an extra kitchen in the basement.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

The code doesn't care if you are renting part of the house. Lot's of people have grown children or parents, even unrelated people living in their shared house that pay rent.

 

[tmurray]

Rental and relationships should not matter for code compliance.

The way we do it, if the dwelling unit can be operated as a separate suite, the separation is required.