B or I-4 or other...

[bgingras]

2009 IBC

Orginally the permit application and plans came in as a modification of a vacant former adult education and training facility. Architect specified same use group, etc. Upon a walk through for a final I found 5 padded, locking cell like rooms that are labeled as "time out". We also received a letter concerning a kitchen hood and if the kitchen was for commericil pruposes. The letter stated "...offers day services for behavioally and academically challeneged adults....professional staff offrs varied curricula where goals could be set such as increased walking distantce, reaching for preferred objects, or joinging a yoga group. Some adults may be working on social skills, while others learn skills needed to volunteer their time at a nursing home or..."

They are comign in for a meeting tomorrow conernign some toher issues and I did have questions about the use. They will be bringing in over 150 "clients" on a daily basis, some will then leave on busses to volunteer programs, others stay for therapy, etc. Does this still sound like a B use? I'm going through the commentary now as well.

Yes, I do know I should have asked more questions before the permit was issued, but that's hindsight speakign now.

Thanks

 

[Mr Softy]

308.5.1

that's an I-4.

 

[brudgers]

Obviously, the scope of the project was not represented correctly on the plans - were the timeout rooms noted?

 

[bgingras]

Yes, I saw "time out" labeled in a couple of rooms and honestly thought we were talking about break rooms at the time, the plan details didn't state much...again, hind sight issue here. The padded walls and locking doors were NOT on the plans. that would have been an easy red flag. The application stated adult eductaion as the use, so B sounded good to me, no change of use, etc. Even now they are still saying B use.

 

[Mr Softy]

the IBC does have an exception that if the occupants can respond in an emergency the designation is R-3. (?) that doesn't sound right.

are the clients there for the day, or is it more out-patient care?

are the clients dropped off and picked up?

 

[bgingras]

Dropped off and picked up by family and I think also van picked up. Some are there for physical therapy. What was listed on the plan as "nursing", which I thought was the nursing program for the adult ed, turns out to be a nursing staion for the "clients". this one is giving me a headache for sure.

clients are mostly there for the day, some leave on busses to other locations afetr being dropped off.

 

[Mr Softy]

clients are mostly there for the day, some leave on busses to other locations afetr being dropped off.

i'd call it an I-4 then.

In MA, a day care use triggers compliance with code for new construction. (IEBC CH 9 Change of Occupancy, 902.1 [#10 Day Care - MA amendments])

 

[Frank]

There are arguments for both B and I-4

If they are there primarily for training, health care, physical occupational and mental therapy etc then the B use is appropriate.

Going by the I-3 definition of more than 5 under restraint, 5 single person time out cells would be permitted in B uses-- see 1008.1.9.3 exception 1.

If they are there primarily for supervision and personal care services especially if not able to respond in an emergency, then the I-4 kicks in.

From what I see so far I would lean towards the B use being acceptable.

Be sure to check the padding for fire retardancy.

 

[texasbo]

While the 5 rooms might be permitted in a B, the very reason they're necessary, and the description given by the OP makes me lean I-4 as well.

They knew what they were doing by only having 5 cells.

 

[bgingras]

Now "they are not cells they are relaxation rooms." was the newest response...they have solid doors, padded walls and slide locks on the outside. Tempered small glass windows in the door and impact resistant construction.

 

[texasbo]

I always tend to relax the most when I have no control over my own freedom.

 

[cda]

we have similar facility and went with I-4 and had to sprinkle the buildiing

because some were not able to take care od themselves, and in wheelchairs that they needed help to get out

so a question to the owner if the person is in the time out room can said person open the door and walk out????????????????????? If not deiffently and I04

 

[Frank]

I always tend to relax the most when I have no control over my own freedom.

Many years ago I carried ladder wrench and institutional sprinkler head into padded cell in hospital that we were retrofitting with sprinklers.

CLICK

It was about an hour or so before the boss man came looking for me.

I was definately considering using the hammer an chisel on my belt to open that door.

Relax did not happen.

 

[brudgers]

Yes, I saw "time out" labeled in a couple of rooms and honestly thought we were talking about break rooms at the time, the plan details didn't state much...again, hind sight issue here. The padded walls and locking doors were NOT on the plans. that would have been an easy red flag. The application stated adult eductaion as the use, so B sounded good to me, no change of use, etc. Even now they are still saying B use.

They can say B use all they want, however unless they take out the restraining rooms it ain't. The reason I asked about the plans is because, I was curious if the architect should have known - with it not being on his plans, there is plausible deniablity.

I'd chalk it up as a case where they changed something in the field.

On the other hand, same day surgery centers have traditionally been B occupancy even though people are under anesthesia.

 

[cda]

Yeah frank.

I will use that one next time I am in the rubber room, that the police brought me to