Bathroom counts for seasonal bar

[Aw912]

Hello. I am working on a seasonal outdoor bar project and need some advice on bathroom counts. My question is, if there are existing indoor bathrooms within the main restaurant that will not be used during the outdoor bars operational hours, can the main indoor restaurant bathrooms suffice per code for the new outdoor bar area as long as both are not operational simultaneously?

 

[classicT]

I would say that you can ask the nice BO and see what he/she says. It really will be up to their opinion of how you present the controls that they will not operate simultaneously. Keep in mind, BO will typically think about the next business that uses the space. Your business may have controls, but the next business that uses the space may not have the same business practices, and because a change of use may not occur, the BO does not have much recourse.

See Footnote 'd' of IBC Table 2902.1 which reads as follows:

d. The occupant load for seasonal outdoor seating and entertainment areas shall be included when determining the minimum number of facilities required.​

 

[classicT]

That said, if the space is a reconfiguration to an existing place of business, you may be able to apply IEBC Section 809.1.

809.1 Minimum Fixtures​

Where the occupant load of the story is increased by more than 20 percent, plumbing fixtures for the story shall be provided in quantities specified in the International Plumbing Code based on the increased occupant load.​

 

[Aw912]

That said, if the space is a reconfiguration to an existing place of business, you may be able to apply IEBC Section 809.1.

809.1 Minimum Fixtures​

Where the occupant load of the story is increased by more than 20 percent, plumbing fixtures for the story shall be provided in quantities specified in the International Plumbing Code based on the increased occupant load.​

Thank you for your knowledgeable response !

 

[classicT]

Thank you for your knowledgeable response !

Absolutely. Your welcome.

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[Sifu]

I would be hesitant to apply this strategy. I have encountered similar proposals before but don't think I have ever seen them operate the way they are proposed. Maybe your situation is iron-clad and acceptable from an enforcement angle but typically I would suspect that when it rains, the outdoor bar patrons move indoors....or vice-versa. Plus, the ever present desire to serve as many people as possible could lead to overflow, even if the bar isn't serving. I understand the desire to add outdoor space, we are all encountering many such proposals now, and a fair number of them are trying to employ strategies that don't increase the occupant loads so they can avoid both fixtures and sprinklers. If people go into the "closed" establishment to use the restrooms, then in many ways, the establishment isn't closed. As classicT recommended, sit down with the CBO, and keep us posted.

 

[steveray]

I would be hesitant to apply this strategy. I have encountered similar proposals before but don't think I have ever seen them operate the way they are proposed. Maybe your situation is iron-clad and acceptable from an enforcement angle but typically I would suspect that when it rains, the outdoor bar patrons move indoors....or vice-versa. Plus, the ever present desire to serve as many people as possible could lead to overflow, even if the bar isn't serving. I understand the desire to add outdoor space, we are all encountering many such proposals now, and a fair number of them are trying to employ strategies that don't increase the occupant loads so they can avoid both fixtures and sprinklers. If people go into the "closed" establishment to use the restrooms, then in many ways, the establishment isn't closed. As classicT recommended, sit down with the CBO, and keep us posted.

That is funny..had that exact discussion with a customer the other day....Weather and where do the people go....