Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

[RickAstoria]

Maybe it is time to come up with a lovely topic....

This is a starter point. In class I heard about ICF's requiring the stamp of an registered design professional.

I decided to check if that is correct. I read in the 2008 Oregon Residential Specialty Code (Oregon's amended version of the IRC).

SECTION R611

INSULATING CONCRETE FORM

WALL CONSTRUCTION

R611.1 General. Insulating Concrete Form (IFC) walls shall

be designed and constructed in accordance with the provisions

of this section or in accordance with the. provisions of

ACI 318. When ACI 318 or the provisions of this section are

used to design insulating concrete form walls, project drawings,

typical details and specifications are not required to bear the

seal of the architect or engineer responsible for design,

unless otherwise required by the state law of the jurisdiction

having authority.

-------------------------------

As I read that, it clearly says it is not required to bear the seal of an architect or engineer unless required by the state law of the jurisdiction having authority. As I read this, we are talking Oregon state law for projects in Oregon.

ORS 671.030 (Oregon's Architect Law - exemption "Activities not considered as "practice of architecture")

671.030 Activities not considered as “practice of architecture.” (1) ORS 671.010 to 671.220 do not apply to the practice of naval or landscape architecture or of engineering by a registered professional engineer or a person engaged in architecture or engineering work as an employee of an architect or registered professional engineer. (2) ORS 671.010 to 671.220 do not prohibit:

(a) Draftsmen, clerks of the work, superintendents and other employees of registered architects and registered professional engineers from acting under the instructions, control or supervision of their employers. A draftsman, clerk, superintendent or other employee may not use the designation “architect,” “architectural” or “architecture” unless licensed under the provisions of ORS 671.010 to 671.220, or unless a title containing the designation is provided by rule of the State Board of Architect Examiners.

(b) A person from making plans or specifications for, or supervising the erection, enlargement or alteration of, a building, or an appurtenance thereto, if the building:

(A) Is to be used for a single family residential dwelling or farm building; or

(B) Is a structure used in connection with or auxiliary to a single family residential dwelling or farm building, including but not limited to a three-car garage, barn or shed or a shelter used for the housing of domestic animals or livestock.

© A person from making plans or specifications for, or supervising the erection, enlargement or alteration of, a building, or an appurtenance thereto, if the building has a ground area of 4,000 square feet or less and is not more than 20 feet in height from the top surface of lowest flooring to the highest interior overhead finish of the structure.

(d) A person from planning, designing, specifying or supervising the alterations or repairs to a building if:

(A) The structural part of the building, including but not limited to the foundation walls, floors, roof, footings, bearing partitions, beams, columns and joists, is not involved;

(B) The building code classification by use or occupancy of the building is not changed; and

© The building code classification by type of construction of the building is not changed.

(e) A contractor or duly appointed superintendent or foreman from directing the work of erecting, enlarging or altering a building, or an appurtenance thereto, under the supervision of a registered architect or registered professional engineer.

(f) A person practicing marine, naval or landscape architecture from purporting to be a marine, naval or landscape architect if the work is confined and limited to those classifications.

(g) A construction contractor licensed under ORS chapter 701 from offering services constituting the practice of architecture if:

(A) The services are appurtenant to construction services to be provided by the contractor;

(B) The services constituting the practice of architecture are performed by an architect or architects registered under ORS 671.010 to 671.220; and

© The offer by the construction contractor discloses in writing that the contractor is not an architect and identifies the registered architect or architects who will perform the services constituting the practice of architecture. [Amended by 1955 c.407 §2; 1957 c.408 §3; 1987 c.158 §134; 1991 c.910 §2; 2001 c.362 §1; 2003 c.763 §3]

and

ORS 672.060 Engineer Law exemption/exceptions (Activities not considered "practice of engineering")

672.060 Exceptions to application of ORS 672.002 to 672.325. ORS 672.002 to 672.325 do not apply to: (1) A registered architect practicing architecture.

(2) A registered environmental health specialist or registered environmental health specialist trainee working under the supervision of a registered environmental health specialist practicing environmental sanitation, or a registered waste water specialist or registered waste water specialist trainee working under the supervision of a registered waste water specialist practicing waste water sanitation.

(3) A person working as an employee or a subordinate of a registered professional engineer if:

(a) The work of the person does not include final engineering designs or decisions;

(b) The work of the person is done under the supervision and control of and is verified by a registered professional engineer; and

© The person does not purport to be an engineer or registered professional engineer by any verbal claim, sign, advertisement, letterhead, card or title.

(4) A person practicing land surveying under the supervision of a registered professional land surveyor or registered professional engineer. The exemption in this subsection does not allow an engineer to supervise a land surveying activity the engineer could not personally perform under ORS 672.025.

(5) An individual, firm, partnership or corporation practicing engineering or land surveying:

(a) On property owned or leased by the individual, firm, partnership or corporation, or on property in which the individual, firm, partnership or corporation has an interest, estate or possessory right; and

(b) That affects exclusively the property or interests of the individual, firm, partnership or corporation, unless the safety or health of the public, including employees and visitors, is involved.

(6) The performance of engineering work by a person, firm or corporation, or by full-time employees thereof, provided:

(a) The work is in connection with or incidental to the operations of the persons, firms or corporations; and

(b) The engineering work is not offered directly to the public.

(7) A person executing engineering work designed by a professional engineer or supervising the construction of engineering work as a foreman or superintendent.

(8) A landowner performing land surveying within the boundaries of the landowner’s land or the landowner’s regular employee performing land surveying services as part of the employee’s official duties within the boundaries of the land of the employer.

(9) An individual, firm, partnership or corporation offering to practice engineering or land surveying if:

(a) The individual, firm, partnership or corporation holds a certificate of registration to engage in the practice of professional engineering or land surveying issued by the proper authority of any other state, a territory or possession of the United States, or a foreign country; and

(b) The offer includes a written statement that the offeror is not registered to practice engineering or land surveying in the State of Oregon, but will comply with ORS 672.002 to 672.325 by having a person holding a valid certificate of registration in this state in responsible charge of the work prior to performing any engineering or land surveying work within this state.

(10) A person making plans or specifications for, or supervising the erection, enlargement or alteration of, a building, or an appurtenance thereto, if the building is to be used for a single family residential dwelling or farm building or is a structure used in connection with or auxiliary to a single family residential dwelling or farm building, including but not limited to a three-car garage, barn or shed or a shelter used for the housing of domestic animals or livestock. ORS 672.002 to 672.325 do not prevent a person from making plans or specifications for, or supervising the erection, enlargement or alteration of, a building, or an appurtenance thereto, if the building has a ground area of 4,000 square feet or less and is not more than 20 feet in height from the top surface of lowest flooring to the highest interior overhead finish of the structure.

(11) A construction contractor licensed under ORS chapter 701 that offers services constituting the practice of engineering if:

(a) The services are appurtenant to construction services to be provided by the contractor;

(b) The services constituting the practice of engineering are performed by an engineer or engineers registered under ORS 672.002 to 672.325; and

© The offer by the construction contractor discloses in writing that the contractor is not an engineer and identifies the registered engineer or engineers that will perform the services constituting the practice of engineering.

(12) A person transcribing existing georeferenced data into a Geographic Information System or Land Information System format by manual or electronic means, and the maintenance of that data, if the data are clearly not intended to indicate the authoritative location of property boundaries, the precise shape or contour of the earth or the precise location of fixed works of humans.

(13) A person carrying out activities under ORS 306.125 or 308.245. This exemption applies to the transcription of tax maps, zoning maps and other public data records into Geographic Information System or Land Information System formatted cadastre and the maintenance of those cadastre, if:

(a) The data are not modified for other than graphical purposes; and

(b) The data are clearly not intended to authoritatively represent property boundaries.

(14) A person preparing maps or compiling databases depicting the distribution of natural or cultural resources, features or phenomena, if the maps or data are not intended to indicate the authoritative location of property boundaries, the precise shape or contour of the earth or the precise location of fixed works by humans.

(15) A federal agency or its contractors, in the preparation of military maps, quadrangle topographic maps, satellite imagery or other maps or images that do not define real property boundaries.

(16) A federal agency or its contractors, in the preparation or transcription of documents or databases into a Geographical Information System or Land Information System format, including but not limited to the preparation or transcription of federal census and other demographic data.

(17) A law enforcement agency or its contractors, in the preparation of documents or maps for traffic accidents, crime scenes or similar purposes depicting physical features or events or generating or using georeferenced data involving crime statistics or criminal activities.

(18) A peace officer, as defined in ORS 161.015, or a fire service professional, as defined in ORS 181.610, conducting, reporting on or testifying about or otherwise performing duties regarding an official investigation.

(19) A person creating general maps prepared for private firms or governmental agencies:

(a) For use as guides to motorists, boaters, aviators or pedestrians;

(b) For publication in a gazetteer or an atlas as an educational tool or reference publication;

© For use in the curriculum of any course of study;

(d) If produced by any electronic or print media, for use as an illustrative guide to the geographic location of any event; or

(e) If prepared for conversational or illustrative purposes, including but not limited to for use as advertising material or user guides. [Amended by 1971 c.751 §4; 1981 c.143 §4; 1981 c.159 §2; 1983 c.614 §2; 1995 c.572 §22; 1997 c.210 §5; 1999 c.830 §1; 2001 c.362 §2; 2003 c.547 §117; 2005 c.445 §8]

[-Pause-]

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

As we read the exemption - (We all know that the default rule of thumb is a licensed is required but these quoted sections of law are the exceptions.

As I read ORS 671.030 (2)(b)(A) and ORS 671.030 (2)(b)(B) - single family residences, farm buildings and their accessory structure (no size rule applies to these preceding building types as buildings of these types are exempt regardless of size and height). As I read ORS 671.030 (2)©, other buildings (multi-dwelling units, commercial, industrial, institutional,ect.) are exempt provided they do not exceed the ground area and/or exceed the height allowed.

A version of the above is also found in ORS 672.060. I have discussed about the exemptions with both the Oregon Board of Architect Examiners and Oregon State Board Examiners of Engineers and Land Surveyors.

http://landru.leg.state.or.us/ors/671.html

http://landru.leg.state.or.us/ors/672.html

My conclusion is ICFs would be allowable to be designed by a competent building designer (unlicensed) if done in accordance with the prescriptive path in the code, ACI318 or any acceptable standard approved by the building official.

Next, we can explore the various exemption/exceptions allowed in the laws of the various states. Later we can discuss Trusses and other structural systems in buildings.

 

[JBI]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Rick - That's more like it! The 'old' Rick is back (shhhhhhhhhh, don't tell Kil! :lol: )

NYS has very different requirements than Oregon. If cost is $20,000 or more, seal & signature required.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here is my jurisdiction's 2006 IRC amendment:

R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents for new single-family dwellings, two-family dwellings, townhouse dwellings, duplex dwellings, additions to dwelling units above the first floor, modifications which alter the roof of a dwelling unit and alterations, repairs, expansion, additions and/or modifications to a dwelling unit of a substantial scope as determined by the Building Official, shall be sealed and signed by an Illinois licensed architect or structural engineer.

 

[kilitact]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Anyone can design ICF foundations, if you follow the rules of the ORSC and the manufactures specifications. Speaking English isn’t a perquisite to designing these. :lol:

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

He isn't aking about foundations he is asking about the walls (Chapt 6). Follow the manufactures engineering (it may be more restrictive) and you are fine

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Anyone can design ICF foundations, if you follow the rules of the ORSC and the manufactures specifications. Speaking English isn’t a perquisite to designing these. :lol:

ICF can be foundations as well as walls.

ICF can be made be using two sheets of foam boards and concrete and rebar. Of course, this is what would be called a field constructed ICF versus an pre-manufactured ICF. Separate issues lies within that.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here is my jurisdiction's 2006 IRC amendment:R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents for new single-family dwellings, two-family dwellings, townhouse dwellings, duplex dwellings, additions to dwelling units above the first floor, modifications which alter the roof of a dwelling unit and alterations, repairs, expansion, additions and/or modifications to a dwelling unit of a substantial scope as determined by the Building Official, shall be sealed and signed by an Illinois licensed architect or structural engineer.

Then you are in Illinois.In Oregon, if one cites R106.1 and try to negate law provisions:

I point out the following:

RI02.2 Other laws. The provisions of this code shall not be

deemed to nullify any provisions of local, state or federal law.

This means, they have to point out a law in municipal level or federal and it must be a statute/law not a code or regulation that explicitly required an RDP when a law exempts it. In short, only a law may over-rule a law not a regulation or administrative rule. Local 'LAW' must explicitly say so. Then I am somewhat a pain in the butt for some B.O.s & Plan Reviewers.

Watch it Rick. You edited my post instead of quoting me in a reply. Your ending came at the end of your reply, so it just added your text (in blue) to my message.

You were able to do this because you are a moderator for this forum. I'm leaving the original message as is because it can be used as an example.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here is my jurisdiction's 2006 IRC amendment:Watch it Rick. You edited my post instead of quoting me in a reply. Your ending

came at the end of your reply, so it just added your text (in blue) to my message.

You were able to do this because you are a moderator for this forum. I'm leaving the original message as is because it can be used as an example.

Sorry, darn edit and quote is right next to each other.

I corrected your original post that I goofed and missed the quote button because the Edit button is right next to it.

Got to get use to the layout visually.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here is my jurisdiction's 2006 IRC amendment:R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents for new single-family dwellings, two-family dwellings, townhouse dwellings, duplex dwellings, additions to dwelling units above the first floor, modifications which alter the roof of a dwelling unit and alterations, repairs, expansion, additions and/or modifications to a dwelling unit of a substantial scope as determined by the Building Official, shall be sealed and signed by an Illinois licensed architect or structural engineer.

Then you are in Illinois.

In Oregon, if one cites R106.1 and try to negate law provisions:

I point out the following:

RI02.2 Other laws. The provisions of this code shall not be

deemed to nullify any provisions of local, state or federal law.

This means, they have to point out a law in municipal level or federal and it must be a statute/law not a code or regulation that explicitly required an RDP when a law exempts it. In short, only a law may over-rule a law not a regulation or administrative rule. Local 'LAW' must explicitly say so. Then I am somewhat a pain in the butt for some B.O.s & Plan Reviewers.

*** Hopefully better now. Still got to get use to the edit button right next to quote button. ***

 

[kilitact]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Rick! Should the moderator be pushing their own agenda, and/or expressing points of view that aren't correct. :roll:

 

[JBI]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

And in the Red corner, hailing from the great State of Oregon... :lol:

Seems like old times.

 

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here if it is residential, single story and under 600 sq. ft. the only plan required is a site plan. The applicant is given a 15 page handout titled Type V Conventional Light Framing. If the project is residential and larger than 600 sq. ft. but still single story a plan is required but if it follows Type V no design professional is required. If the project deviates from Type V with such things as vaulted ceilings. roofs pitched below 3" in 12", balloon framing, two story, etc. then an engineer is required for the elements that deviate from Type V, but only those elements.

At the footing inspection I provide the workman with non-sanctioned handouts for everything I can think of, from how to get power thru a wall for the A/C unit, installing windows, radiant barriers, stucco lath, roofing, el. service panels etc. My bosses have told me that I shouldn't do that because my handouts do not bear a County seal. I tell them that our stock in trade is information and I get better results if I give them that information before they do the work rather than waiting for them to make mistakes and then give them the information. One wouldn't think I would have to point that out. Their argument is that there are always several ways to accomplish a task and we shouldn't endorse one way over another as that could lead to liability. They would have a cow if they knew about the classes I've held. The last one was a Cambodian crew that had no idea how to install lath. They were a cute bunch of guys and now they know how.

I guess deep down I miss wearing the bags.

 

[rktect 1]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here is my jurisdiction's 2006 IRC amendment:R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents for new single-family dwellings, two-family dwellings, townhouse dwellings, duplex dwellings, additions to dwelling units above the first floor, modifications which alter the roof of a dwelling unit and alterations, repairs, expansion, additions and/or modifications to a dwelling unit of a substantial scope as determined by the Building Official, shall be sealed and signed by an Illinois licensed architect or structural engineer.

Then you are in Illinois.

Thanks, I needed that. Been looking for something like that where I am at but have yet to be able to find it. Hopefully on our next run through I can add this in.

 

[rktect 1]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Tigerloose,

That is just insane.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Rick! Should the moderator be pushing their own agenda, and/or expressing points of view that aren't correct. :roll:

Building codes in Oregon are regulations not laws. Not by technical definition of a law (statutes).

We also remember the long discussions and OBAE and OSBEELS position. Since they are the official law enforcer of the architect & engineer's laws, respectfully. :roll:

Now, regarding opinions and agendas and expressing points of view. I have a right to that and being a moderator doesn't forbid someone from expressing views. Being a moderator is simply about keeping things going as far as a virtual fist fight. Moderator doesn't mean I am the authority/god of all topics nor does it mean that such powers are to be used against someone with differing views.

At least we get some lively conversation going.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here if it is residential, single story and under 600 sq. ft. the only plan required is a site plan. The applicant is given a 15 page handout titled Type V Conventional Light Framing. If the project is residential and larger than 600 sq. ft. but still single story a plan is required but if it follows Type V no design professional is required. If the project deviates from Type V with such things as vaulted ceilings. roofs pitched below 3" in 12", balloon framing, two story, etc. then an engineer is required for the elements that deviate from Type V, but only those elements. At the footing inspection I provide the workman with non-sanctioned handouts for everything I can think of, from how to get power thru a wall for the A/C unit, installing windows, radiant barriers, stucco lath, roofing, el. service panels etc. My bosses have told me that I shouldn't do that because my handouts do not bear a County seal. I tell them that our stock in trade is information and I get better results if I give them that information before they do the work rather than waiting for them to make mistakes and then give them the information. One wouldn't think I would have to point that out. Their argument is that there are always several ways to accomplish a task and we shouldn't endorse one way over another as that could lead to liability. They would have a cow if they knew about the classes I've held. The last one was a Cambodian crew that had no idea how to install lath. They were a cute bunch of guys and now they know how.

I guess deep down I miss wearing the bags.

Quite interesting with the variety of laws/codes of states. Got to be California.

 

[atomahutna]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here is my jurisdiction's 2006 IRC amendment:R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents for new single-family dwellings, two-family dwellings, townhouse dwellings, duplex dwellings, additions to dwelling units above the first floor, modifications which alter the roof of a dwelling unit and alterations, repairs, expansion, additions and/or modifications to a dwelling unit of a substantial scope as determined by the Building Official, shall be sealed and signed by an Illinois licensed architect or structural engineer.

Lucky You! I'm just hoping santa will bring me that requirement for restaurant plans this year.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Here is my jurisdiction's 2006 IRC amendment:R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents for new single-family dwellings, two-family dwellings, townhouse dwellings, duplex dwellings, additions to dwelling units above the first floor, modifications which alter the roof of a dwelling unit and alterations, repairs, expansion, additions and/or modifications to a dwelling unit of a substantial scope as determined by the Building Official, shall be sealed and signed by an Illinois licensed architect or structural engineer.

Lucky You! I'm just hoping santa will bring me that requirement for restaurant plans this year.

Helps not to have a state code and to be home rule...

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Anyone else in the land of Texas, Oklahoma and other locales? We have our basic, California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, New York and New Jersey.

Quite interesting territories.

I would have thought balloon framing was conventional....

 

[georgia plans exam]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Rick,

I think maybe balloon framing would be conventional. Both balloon and platform framing are shown on figure R602.3(1) in the 2006 IRC. May be different in Tigers area.

GPE

 

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Rick,

No plans does produce some interesting outcomes. Any bearing wall above 10' requires engineering. Do we always get it? Nope. Generally when there are bearing walls taller than 10', there are other building elements that trigger an engineering requirement as well.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

Rick,No plans does produce some interesting outcomes. Any bearing wall above 10' requires engineering. Do we always get it? Nope. Generally when there are bearing walls taller than 10', there are other building elements that trigger an engineering requirement as well.

chuckle...

Yeah, but I have no problems designing 16-24' stud framing or Post & Beam framing. Then again, Oregon is nice in these regards. Allows me to be more creative then just an overly restrictive cookie cutter designing.

 

[kilitact]

Re: Building Designer plans - Is an RDP stamp required?

yes, oregon is nice; they give you Tables (602.3(5), 602.3.1 etc) to follow and all those easy to read pictures. even a caveman should be able to build it. :lol: