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Bulletin boards inside an elevator lobby

D

danzare083

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
20
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Good afternoon,

I am looking for a building safety code applicable to California. I am trying to enforce the rule that all posters, printed announcements, etc. are only posted on the metal framed bulletin boards inside open elevator lobbies, and not affixed directly to the walls by the elevator. I reviewed the CA Fire code, and could not find any restriction for elevator lobbies with respect to putting up combustible artwork, decorations, posters, and such, directly onto a wall. The campus policy that was written by my predeccesor lists the aforementioned rule, but does not cite an actual code for reference.

Thank you very much for your time!
 
I think it was the " because I said section"

Take it to be rated corridor ??

Cannot find the section I want in the IFC
 
Thank you for your reply, cda. This is exactly what I was afraid of.

Long story shirt, our facility is a private college. An art student hung his drawings in several rated open elevator lobbies, directly onto the walls, and was promptly told that doing so violates the policy and his artwork must be moved to the bulletin board or be removed from the elevator lobbies. Now, the student and his instructor are filing a complaint that the college policy is unlawful since there are no actual fire code regulations prohibiting the described circumstances.

I am concerned that even if the local Fire Marshall would back up our policy, since there is no law on the books, the Fire Marshall's recommendation can be ignored as well. How do you respond to your clients, tenants, and customers who have this "I can't be held accountable for breaking a law that does not exist" attitude?
 
I'm with cda, if you can't cite it, don't write it. cda, I think you a loking for 102.9 in the IFC;

[A] 102.9 Matters not provided for.

Requirements that are essential for the public safety of an existing or proposed activity, building or structure, or for the safety of the occupants thereof, which are not specifically provided for by this code, shall be determined by the fire code official.
 
TABLE 803.4 INTERIOR WALL AND CEILING FINISH REQUIREMENTS BY OCCUPANCY

Elevator Finishes and Materials

The IBC states that interior finishes for enclosed spaces must be of Class C or B materials, depending on whether the space is sprinklered or not. However, that is not a decision that needs to be determined since ASME A17.1 requires finishes to be of Class B materials (a flame spread index less than or equal to 75 and a smoke developed index less than or equal to 450) when tested in accordance with ASTM E 84, Test Methods for Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, or UL 723, Standard for Test for Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials.
 
No was trying to find the art work in the corridor

Not near the books till Monday

As a business you can make your own rules and do not need code to back it
 
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danzare083,

Do you know what the Occ. Group type is for your elevator lobby area?

This is from the `10 CBC, Section 806 - Decorative materials and trim:

"[ F ] 806.1 General requirements. In occupancies in Group A, E, I and R-1

and dormitories in Group R-2, curtains, draperies, hangings and other

decorative materials suspended from walls or ceilings shall meet the flame

propagation performance criteria of NFPA 701 in accordance with Section

806.2 or be noncombustible........In Groups I-1 and I-2, combustible decorative

materials shall meet the flame propagation criteria of NFPA 701 unless the

decorative materials, including, but not limited to, photographs and paintings,

are of such limited quantities that a hazard of fire development or spread is

not present.............In Group I-3, combustible decorative materials are

prohibited..........Fixed or movable walls and partitions, paneling, wall pads and

crash pads applied structurally or for decoration, acoustical correction,

surface insulation or other purposes shall be considered interior finish if

they cover 10 percent or more of the wall or of the ceiling area, and shall

not be considered decorative materials or furnishings........In Group B and M

occupancies, fabric partitions suspended from the ceiling and not supported

by the floor shall meet the flame propagation performance criteria in

accordance with Section 806.2 and NFPA 701 or shall be noncombustible."

[ F ] 806.1.1 - Noncombustible materials: "The permissible amount of

noncombustible decorative material shall not be limited."



[ F ] 806.1.2 - Combustible decorative materials: "The permissible amount

of decorative materials meeting the flame propagation performance criteria

of NFPA 701 shall not exceed 10 percent of the specific wall or ceiling area

to which it is attached.

Exceptions:In auditoriums in Group A, the permissible amount of decorative

material meeting the flame propagation performance criteria of NFPA 701

shall not exceed 75 percent of the aggregate wall area where the building

is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with

Section 903.3.1.1 and where the material is installed in accordance with

Section 803.11.........The amount of fabric partitions suspended from the

ceiling and not supported by the floor in Group B and M occupancies shall

not be limited.

[ F ] 806.2 - Acceptance criteria and reports: "Where required by Section

806.1, decorative materials shall be tested by an agency and meet the flame

propagation performance criteria of NFPA 701, or such materials shall be

noncombustible...........Reports of test results shall be prepared in accordance

with NFPA 701 and furnished to the building official upon request."

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Last edited by a moderator:
If college would be a B

Was thinking this section but does not apply to B

807.4 Occupancy-based requirements. In occupancies in Group A, E and I-4 day care facilities, decorative materials other than decorative vegetation shall comply with Sections 807.4.1 through 807.4.4.2.

Once again though a business can put any policy in place
 
@ north star

Our facility is Occupancy B.

Everyone, thank you very much for your feedback. I think I'll invite the Fire Marshall to argue that affixing combustible materials to the elevator lobby walls is a bad idea, and even if there is no specific code prohibiting that, a Fire Marshall can still establish additional facility-wide fire safety requirements per IFC 102.9, as suggested by fatboy.
 
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danzare083,

...and "thank you" for visiting the Forum!......May I also encourage you

to come back often, ...tell all of your friends & colleagues about this

Forum, and to possibly consider becoming a Sawhorsie ! :D

Thanks!

+ =
 
danzare083

Do you mind saying what you do for a living and how you are connected with the college
 
So you should be able to set policy. Even without code to back you

Like there shall be no burning candles in any office area
 
Might be an old policy that was backed up by the UFC. I would check there also so it doesn't look like an "I told you so policy"
 
SECTION 803

INTERIOR WALL AND CEILING FINISH AND TRIM

IN EXISTING BUILDINGS

803.1 General. The provisions of this section shall limit the allowable flame spread and smoke development of interior wall and ceiling finishes and interior wall and ceiling trim in

existing buildings based on location and occupancy classification. Interior wall and ceiling finishes shall be classified in accordance with Section 803 of the International Building

Code. Such materials shall be grouped in accordance with ASTM E 84, as indicated in Section 803.1.1, or in accordance

with NFPA 286, as indicated in Section 803.1.2.

Exceptions:

1. Materials having a thickness less than 0.036 inch (0.9

mm) applied directly to the surface of walls and ceilings.

2. Exposed portions of structural members complying

with the requirements of buildings of Type IV construction

in accordance with the International Building

Code shall not be subject to interior finish

requirements.

I would use section 803 ... and state that the materials being posted on the wall are not tested to ASTM E84 or to NFPA 286 standards. This is only required if they do not meet the exceptions of this section.
 
But he is basically the safety officer for the campus and should be able to write and implement rules like any private company does
 
Hanging a poster on the wall is not a finish material. Using 803 would be a stretch IMHO

I agree with cda. He is the safety officer and he could apply 807 to all buildings in the college and limit it to 10% of the wall area
 
cda said:
But he is basically the safety officer for the campus and should be able to write and implement rules like any private company does
Click to expand...
Setting ones own "policy" is dangerous.

It is safer to set policy if there is something backing it up.

A code, standard, etcetera.
 
Highly disagree, if that is your position and you have the power.

And the code books do not address your or every situation.

Safety policies are set all the time by companies, cities

Like no cell phone use, no smoking in company owned vehicles
 
How many injurys or deaths have been caused by bulletin boards in elevators

There should be a reason for a policy
 
danzare083,

Are the paper attachments a visual nuisance more than an actual fire potential?

Also, can you set a policy after the paperwork/(artwork ??) has already been hung?

Also, welcome to the Building Codes Forum!

.
 
Well not to many schools have burned down because of Johnny's art work

Op brought up the question looking for a solution

As someone posted maybe use the ten percent rule and live with that
 
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