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Carport - Wood Frame Construction

e hilton

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
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1,780
Location
Virginia
Why dont you tell us what section you think applies, and ask for confirmation? At least that makes it seem that you have looked.
 

UPINDEAIRE963

Registered User
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
5
Location
Central Florida
Well- I've researched the Basic Code Elements - The only Section that seems to apply to Carports specifically is Section R 309.4 - And that seems to identify the description of a Carport ( open on two or more sides ) ... I'm looking for actual construction specifics - column foundation / column to footings connection / roof to existing structure connections / flashings if required / etc .... I've researched the specific components (by manufacturer) / Florida Product Approval Code Number, etc . .... I'm looking for lift resistance / live and dead load requirements (specifically for open Carports)/ Seminole County requires me to reference the specific Code Sections when I submit my plans ( I'm drafting my own plans ) ( I'm a retired Building Contractor - many years removed from current Code requirements ) ... Anyway, I 'm not comfortable with the aluminum / metal carports that are out there --- I'm electing to build my own - and Seminole County Florida Officials want it done to specific code requirements ... ( I'm not opposed to it - just need to know what they are .... Thanks for the input ... And any other input will be appreciated .... UPINDEAIRE 963 ... AND THE BEAT GOES ON - AND SO IT GOES ....
 

Mark K

Platinum Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,927
Suggest you will find the answer in the IBC. It doesn't have prescriptive provisions for carports but for example the IBC will allow you to calculate the forces on the structure and the capacity of the members.
 

jar546

Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
8,521
Location
Palm Beach County Florida
Well- I've researched the Basic Code Elements - The only Section that seems to apply to Carports specifically is Section R 309.4 - And that seems to identify the description of a Carport ( open on two or more sides ) ... I'm looking for actual construction specifics - column foundation / column to footings connection / roof to existing structure connections / flashings if required / etc .... I've researched the specific components (by manufacturer) / Florida Product Approval Code Number, etc . .... I'm looking for lift resistance / live and dead load requirements (specifically for open Carports)/ Seminole County requires me to reference the specific Code Sections when I submit my plans ( I'm drafting my own plans ) ( I'm a retired Building Contractor - many years removed from current Code requirements ) ... Anyway, I 'm not comfortable with the aluminum / metal carports that are out there --- I'm electing to build my own - and Seminole County Florida Officials want it done to specific code requirements ... ( I'm not opposed to it - just need to know what they are .... Thanks for the input ... And any other input will be appreciated .... UPINDEAIRE 963 ... AND THE BEAT GOES ON - AND SO IT GOES ....
You are in an approximate 130mph wind zone and the construction type you are planning is outside the scope of the IRC (FBC Residential) and is not prescriptive. You can't design it and unless you are a Florida licensed contractor, you cannot build it. What you want to do and what you can do are two different things.
 

UPINDEAIRE963

Registered User
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
5
Location
Central Florida
Thank you all for your responses --- I am a licensed Florida Building Contractor ( retired) - However, I am also a Florida Residential Home Owner, and as such, I can act as my own Builder Contractor - I was looking for specific guidelines for construction of a wood frame carport ( and per Seminole County Florida Building Officials, I must adhere to specific FBC Sections - and reference them on my Drawings / Permit Application). I've decided that is too complicated to continue to research the Code just to conform to a Building Official's requirement ---- No pun intended --- Over the previous 50 years or so, I've constructed or reconstructed multiple structures and "things" ( Ie: construction trailers / storage buildings / etc. ...) ... I'm going to construct the carport with the materials on hand ( steel pipe / angle iron / C-channel / etc ... / I will weld all critical components on site and assemble according to my common sense construction methods that have been proven through the years ( some have been around more than 50 years and are still in use )... The structure will be a permanent assembly that will exceed any current Building Code - I will deal with the Code Officials as I go along .... Again, thank you all for the responses . Respectfully ....
 
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Mark K

Platinum Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,927
How do you know that the design will comply with the building code requirements if you do not know what the code is?

When the building official identifies your unpermitted work how will you convince the building official that you comply? This will likely require you hire a civil engineer to try to justify the existing. How well will you have documented what you have done? If you have not then the engineer and the testing lab will have to try to determine what you have done.

What is the likelihood that the building department will be aware of your un permitted construction?

The building official could ask for evidence that the material complies with a given standard. Do you have this information for the materials on hand?

Special inspections will likely be required for steel welding and other operations. Will you hire a testing and inspection agency to provide these services? Without documentation of those inspections it will become more difficult to prove compliance.

Some jurisdictions double permit fees on something permitted post construction.

This all assumes that the carport is compliant with the zoning laws.

What would it cost to hire an engineer to design the carport and what would it cost to buy new materials that can be documented?

I am reminded of the classic movie line "badges badges I don't need to show you no stinking badges". Maybe this should be your response when the building department comes knocking.
 

jar546

Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
8,521
Location
Palm Beach County Florida
Concerning the owner/builder permit, it is for you to act as your own GC and coordinate construction but all work must be performed by a licensed contractor. If you reactivate your license, then that is another story.
 

Rick18071

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
3,094
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
Interesting, you don't need anything about the building code to be a licensed Florida Building Contractor. There is no contractor licenses here where I am for anything. I just thought you had to know something about the codes to be licenced where required.
 

UPINDEAIRE963

Registered User
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
5
Location
Central Florida
Greetings: Well - in response ...... I've been a Florida Certified Licensed Building Contractor since 1992 .... ( been inactive as a Building Contractor for the previous ten or so years - although I've maintained my Active Building License Renewals ) ... 'And have been a Commercial and Residential Building Inspector / Building Consultant for twenty five or so of the previous years ---- I've inspected everything from the dirt the building was going to be constructed on and everything in between up to the final Certificate of Occupancy .... The Florida Building Code is / always been an integral / requirement part of every construction component ( and Florida Certified License). I never separated the construction of a / the Carport Building Code Requirements from the rest of the Building Code. I am going to build my own Carport and I requested the Building Official direct me to the specific section of the Florida Building Code that he wants me to adhere to. He responded by referring me to a general FBC Building Code section that pertains to Residential Construction - which incorporates ALL of the components involved in the construction of a Residential Dwelling. My thought has been he wants me to pick and choose which parts of the Florida Building Code I think is pertinent to the construction of a Wood Frame Carport. The only FBC Section that specifically refers to Carports defines a Structure that has two or more open sides ---- nothing about the requirements of a freestanding Wood Frame Carport. That leaves me with the situation of Specific Sections of the FBC that I think is relevant to my project - and if those Code Section Selections differ from the Building Officials' opinion, then I am compelled to figure out the Specific FBC Sections that are applicable to my project. ... Sooo ... In response to others responses to my inquiry - "If I don't know the Specific FBC Sections to construct to then how do / will I know if the Carport conforms to the FBC". My response is " a lot of my previous projects did not conform the existing FBC or equivalent - they exceeded the existing FBC with design / engineering components and the Building Officials didn't know quite how to respond - on more than one occasion, the Building Official on site would write up a "failed - requires changes to conform to the FBC and a Re-Inspection". More than once, through the years I've challenged the knowledge of the Building Official(s) and after much consternation on their part have reluctantly accepted my component(s) / design / construction as constructed - ( or in a whole bunch of cases when I was Inspecting - conceded directly or indirectly that the issue called out was correct and required correction to conform to the Build Officials' own Building Code.).
NOTE HERE - They accepted my construction procedures - they did not "sign off" on the permit, but allowed me to proceed .....
Now, I am all for conformity to Building Codes - My point is what specific section - page and paragraph(s) - does the Building Official want me to conform to ?
In the absence of a specific FBC directive, I will make it simple for me and construct my freestanding carport from the materials on hand - namely steel pipe / fabricated fittings and weldments / etc. . When I compare my steel structure to the aluminum carports / structures that are approved for our wind code area -
(140 mph) - the Carport I will construct will EXCEED the live-load / dead-load requirements / resistance to lift that it will be exposed to. ... Just a snide remark here, no intended disrespect to any one reading (or has responded to this Post), if my Carport (or my Residence succumbs to a weather event)then my neighbors will be long gone before my Residence and Carport are blown away. ( Excluding sinkholes - I don't believe there are any protections from those).
It appears to me the Architects and Engineering Professions have colluded here in Florida to compel (through Building Code requirements) individuals to hire their services to be able to conform to "A Building Code" - Now, I am in agreement, there are a lot of slip-shod structures that would not conform to any common sense building procedure and a there is absolutely a need and a requirement for adherence to these aforementioned Building Codes - However, there are multiple instances where an individual has the knowledge / skill level / integrity / and general where-with-all to construct a safe and secure structure.
In these instances, the Building Official should be acting as a guide (or observer) to the individual - not as a constable or a restrictive agent that can deny or stop a project predicated on that Building Officials' limited knowledge or experience.
Anyway, that's my take on my situation, and there is no animosity toward anyone or any Building Official, however, if what I am going to build, with or without anyone's permission, exceeds the observers' knowledge / skill level / or experience - then so be - go get educated and then come and see me about what you don't like about how I am doing things . For those that don't know me, for the past 80 years or so, I've have had an authority problem with directives that "don't seem to fit". 'Didn't intend for this to be anything more than what it is - an explanation of my position in regard to constructing a Carport on my Personal Property - 'AND THE BEAT GOES ON - AND SO IT GOES ...!!! ...

As an aside - look at the multi-story Residences in South Florida that were constructed "according to the Building Code in effect at the time - and look at the number of KNOWN Building Failure Components in other adjacent structures - AND then compare those structures to the existing buildings that were constructed PRIOR to any Building Code - the question is - Did the Building Code Fail ??? - or was it the Building Officials who failed to compel the Contractor to adhere to known Building Code Requirements ?

The failure of the Building Officials to what - enforce compliance to a Building Code - OR - Did they overlook compliance issues or were not aware of the failure to comply ???
The result is - the tremendous loss of life -
Something is drastically wrong when a structure was built many years prior to any Building Code and has withstood multiple High Wind Events - and a relatively "newer" structure that was built to a Building Code - fails in its' entirety ..... Thanks for reading ...
 

e hilton

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
1,780
Location
Virginia
Upindeaire … i read your earlier posts, the last one is much too long and unformatted to struggle with.

My take is that you have lots of experience, used to have the credentials, and now you are looking for ways to work around the code.
 

cda

Sawhorse 123
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
20,931
Location
Basement
Greetings: Well - in response ...... I've been a Florida Certified Licensed Building Contractor since 1992 .... ( been inactive as a Building Contractor for the previous ten or so years - although I've maintained my Active Building License Renewals ) ... 'And have been a Commercial and Residential Building Inspector / Building Consultant for twenty five or so of the previous years ---- I've inspected everything from the dirt the building was going to be constructed on and everything in between up to the final Certificate of Occupancy .... The Florida Building Code is / always been an integral / requirement part of every construction component ( and Florida Certified License). I never separated the construction of a / the Carport Building Code Requirements from the rest of the Building Code. I am going to build my own Carport and I requested the Building Official direct me to the specific section of the Florida Building Code that he wants me to adhere to. He responded by referring me to a general FBC Building Code section that pertains to Residential Construction - which incorporates ALL of the components involved in the construction of a Residential Dwelling. My thought has been he wants me to pick and choose which parts of the Florida Building Code I think is pertinent to the construction of a Wood Frame Carport. The only FBC Section that specifically refers to Carports defines a Structure that has two or more open sides ---- nothing about the requirements of a freestanding Wood Frame Carport. That leaves me with the situation of Specific Sections of the FBC that I think is relevant to my project - and if those Code Section Selections differ from the Building Officials' opinion, then I am compelled to figure out the Specific FBC Sections that are applicable to my project. ... Sooo ... In response to others responses to my inquiry - "If I don't know the Specific FBC Sections to construct to then how do / will I know if the Carport conforms to the FBC". My response is " a lot of my previous projects did not conform the existing FBC or equivalent - they exceeded the existing FBC with design / engineering components and the Building Officials didn't know quite how to respond - on more than one occasion, the Building Official on site would write up a "failed - requires changes to conform to the FBC and a Re-Inspection". More than once, through the years I've challenged the knowledge of the Building Official(s) and after much consternation on their part have reluctantly accepted my component(s) / design / construction as constructed - ( or in a whole bunch of cases when I was Inspecting - conceded directly or indirectly that the issue called out was correct and required correction to conform to the Build Officials' own Building Code.).
NOTE HERE - They accepted my construction procedures - they did not "sign off" on the permit, but allowed me to proceed .....
Now, I am all for conformity to Building Codes - My point is what specific section - page and paragraph(s) - does the Building Official want me to conform to ?
In the absence of a specific FBC directive, I will make it simple for me and construct my freestanding carport from the materials on hand - namely steel pipe / fabricated fittings and weldments / etc. . When I compare my steel structure to the aluminum carports / structures that are approved for our wind code area -
(140 mph) - the Carport I will construct will EXCEED the live-load / dead-load requirements / resistance to lift that it will be exposed to. ... Just a snide remark here, no intended disrespect to any one reading (or has responded to this Post), if my Carport (or my Residence succumbs to a weather event)then my neighbors will be long gone before my Residence and Carport are blown away. ( Excluding sinkholes - I don't believe there are any protections from those).
It appears to me the Architects and Engineering Professions have colluded here in Florida to compel (through Building Code requirements) individuals to hire their services to be able to conform to "A Building Code" - Now, I am in agreement, there are a lot of slip-shod structures that would not conform to any common sense building procedure and a there is absolutely a need and a requirement for adherence to these aforementioned Building Codes - However, there are multiple instances where an individual has the knowledge / skill level / integrity / and general where-with-all to construct a safe and secure structure.
In these instances, the Building Official should be acting as a guide (or observer) to the individual - not as a constable or a restrictive agent that can deny or stop a project predicated on that Building Officials' limited knowledge or experience.
Anyway, that's my take on my situation, and there is no animosity toward anyone or any Building Official, however, if what I am going to build, with or without anyone's permission, exceeds the observers' knowledge / skill level / or experience - then so be - go get educated and then come and see me about what you don't like about how I am doing things . For those that don't know me, for the past 80 years or so, I've have had an authority problem with directives that "don't seem to fit". 'Didn't intend for this to be anything more than what it is - an explanation of my position in regard to constructing a Carport on my Personal Property - 'AND THE BEAT GOES ON - AND SO IT GOES ...!!! ...

As an aside - look at the multi-story Residences in South Florida that were constructed "according to the Building Code in effect at the time - and look at the number of KNOWN Building Failure Components in other adjacent structures - AND then compare those structures to the existing buildings that were constructed PRIOR to any Building Code - the question is - Did the Building Code Fail ??? - or was it the Building Officials who failed to compel the Contractor to adhere to known Building Code Requirements ?

The failure of the Building Officials to what - enforce compliance to a Building Code - OR - Did they overlook compliance issues or were not aware of the failure to comply ???
The result is - the tremendous loss of life -
Something is drastically wrong when a structure was built many years prior to any Building Code and has withstood multiple High Wind Events - and a relatively "newer" structure that was built to a Building Code - fails in its' entirety ..... Thanks for reading ...

If you have been in the business

Normally plans are submitted for review

They show and reference compliance with code.

The building Dept reviews using the code.

1. They do not design

2. They normally do not tell you, prior to submittal, comply with this section.

3. One reason is sometimes there are multiple ways to comply, and some may be cheaper.
 

UPINDEAIRE963

Registered User
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
5
Location
Central Florida
Greetings: Nope - 'Am willing to work within the code - I am not attempting to "sidestep" the Code or any part of it ... My requirement is for the Building Official to inform me what section of the Code he wants me to adhere to in relation to the respective sections of the Florida Building Code ... His "No Response" is to compel me to build to my own design - knowing full well that my Design / Engineering / Construction will exceed the designated 140 mph for my area .... As I stated earlier, I will submit my plans including all component specifications / criteria / etc. .... I will not be referencing any Code Sections .... And the Building Official will be welcome to come to my project site to "Observe" ; and if there are any recommendations for changes on his part, they will be considered - it goes without saying, if his recommendations lessen the construction criteria to satisfy a "Code Requirement", ( to lessen the strength or longevity of the structure, then his recommendation will not be adhered to ). Regarding the length of the previous Posts, When a subject is shortened to conform to others comfort level, then they have the option of not reading it .... No offense intended. My criteria has always been to provide as much information on a subject as is available to me, and let the reader discern what is applicable to them - that way there is no question what the meaning or purpose of the document is.

If I have given the impression that my Posts are an abuse of this forum, then I apologize ..... I submitted my Posts for the input of others that may have a different "slant" or direction in regard to my construction of my Carport and the corresponding Florida Building Code / 2020 addition .... Thank You ...

'AND THE BEAT GOES ON - AND SO IT GOES ... !!! ...
 

cda

Sawhorse 123
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
20,931
Location
Basement
Greetings: Nope - 'Am willing to work within the code - I am not attempting to "sidestep" the Code or any part of it ... My requirement is for the Building Official to inform me what section of the Code he wants me to adhere to in relation to the respective sections of the Florida Building Code ... His "No Response" is to compel me to build to my own design - knowing full well that my Design / Engineering / Construction will exceed the designated 140 mph for my area .... As I stated earlier, I will submit my plans including all component specifications / criteria / etc. .... I will not be referencing any Code Sections .... And the Building Official will be welcome to come to my project site to "Observe" ; and if there are any recommendations for changes on his part, they will be considered - it goes without saying, if his recommendations lessen the construction criteria to satisfy a "Code Requirement", ( to lessen the strength or longevity of the structure, then his recommendation will not be adhered to ). Regarding the length of the previous Posts, When a subject is shortened to conform to others comfort level, then they have the option of not reading it .... No offense intended. My criteria has always been to provide as much information on a subject as is available to me, and let the reader discern what is applicable to them - that way there is no question what the meaning or purpose of the document is.

If I have given the impression that my Posts are an abuse of this forum, then I apologize ..... I submitted my Posts for the input of others that may have a different "slant" or direction in regard to my construction of my Carport and the corresponding Florida Building Code / 2020 addition .... Thank You ...

'AND THE BEAT GOES ON - AND SO IT GOES ... !!! ...

He gave you a section

Comply with the code

Submit plans and see if they fly.
 

Mark K

Platinum Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,927
Claims about pre building code buildings ignore the pre-code buildings that failed. All you see are the ones that have survived.

I do not hear how you will show that your design will comply with the building code.

I am hearing that you are willing to work within the code but then your attitude is that you do not need to comply with the code by providing the necessary justification.

Hire an engineer. He will know what code provisions are relevant.
 

ADAguy

Sawhorse
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
5,985
Location
California
You are not the first or the last to "wa-wa" on this site. Grey hair and claimed experience do not allow for ignorance of code minimums. Code is just that and requires a minimum level of mathematics by which an AHJ can review your proposal for compliance; this to protect you/your clients from yourself. rify
Review/permitting does not warranty that you will observe/inspect and verify that your materials and methods meet the minimums. The condo is an example of failure to maintain and possible failure to daily inspect delivered and installed products. A sister building is still standing isn't it?
 

jar546

Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
8,521
Location
Palm Beach County Florida
Greetings: Nope - 'Am willing to work within the code - I am not attempting to "sidestep" the Code or any part of it ... My requirement is for the Building Official to inform me what section of the Code he wants me to adhere to in relation to the respective sections of the Florida Building Code ... His "No Response" is to compel me to build to my own design - knowing full well that my Design / Engineering / Construction will exceed the designated 140 mph for my area .... As I stated earlier, I will submit my plans including all component specifications / criteria / etc. .... I will not be referencing any Code Sections .... And the Building Official will be welcome to come to my project site to "Observe" ; and if there are any recommendations for changes on his part, they will be considered - it goes without saying, if his recommendations lessen the construction criteria to satisfy a "Code Requirement", ( to lessen the strength or longevity of the structure, then his recommendation will not be adhered to ). Regarding the length of the previous Posts, When a subject is shortened to conform to others comfort level, then they have the option of not reading it .... No offense intended. My criteria has always been to provide as much information on a subject as is available to me, and let the reader discern what is applicable to them - that way there is no question what the meaning or purpose of the document is.

If I have given the impression that my Posts are an abuse of this forum, then I apologize ..... I submitted my Posts for the input of others that may have a different "slant" or direction in regard to my construction of my Carport and the corresponding Florida Building Code / 2020 addition .... Thank You ...

'AND THE BEAT GOES ON - AND SO IT GOES ... !!! ...

Tell Scott, the Building Official I said hello.
 

mtlogcabin

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
8,128
Location
Big Sky Country
Concerning the owner/builder permit, it is for you to act as your own GC and coordinate construction but all work must be performed by a licensed contractor. If you reactivate your license, then that is another story.
Jar
The statue does not prohibit him from doing the work

(7) Owners of property when acting as their own contractor and providing direct, onsite supervision themselves of all work not performed by licensed contractors:

DISCLOSURE STATEMENT

1. I understand that state law requires construction to be done by a licensed contractor and have applied for an owner-builder permit under an exemption from the law. The exemption specifies that I, as the owner of the property listed, may act as my own contractor with certain restrictions even though I do not have a license.

This applies to all permits required for construction. Building, Plumbing, HVAC, Electrical, Fences, Roofing and whatever else your jurisdiction may require a permit for. There are a lot of one man contractors out there.
 
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