I have an old small building-1890's that was "according to the owner" used for commercial purposes intil around 1980-85. The building was then used for residential purposes(not sure if a single family or multiple units). The unit was relocated to a new site with a residential permit on a new foundation and now he wants to go back to use it for commercial use(a bank). Would you require him to provide a structual analysis of the building since it's a change of use or would you say its just going back to its original use. If it was a newer building I wouldnt be overly concerned with the structual design but with this being a building constructed back in the late 1800's I have some reservation about the whole thing. What are your thoughts?
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Change of uses
- Thread starter GREEN
- Start date
jar546
Forum Coordinator
Re: Change of uses
It is whatever it was last.
We have a few guys around here that think this way:
"I have a building that has been a pharmacy for the past 20 years and someone wants to turn it into a bar restaurant. Before it was a pharmacy it was a local tavern so it is not a change of use"
That drives me nuts. I had one recently that was a sporting good store for about 10 years. Someone bought it and wanted to turn it into a pizza shop/restaurant. The retired previous code official told me that since it was a restaurant before it was a sporting good store it is not change of use. I wanted to smack his dentures out.
It is whatever it was last.
We have a few guys around here that think this way:
"I have a building that has been a pharmacy for the past 20 years and someone wants to turn it into a bar restaurant. Before it was a pharmacy it was a local tavern so it is not a change of use"
That drives me nuts. I had one recently that was a sporting good store for about 10 years. Someone bought it and wanted to turn it into a pizza shop/restaurant. The retired previous code official told me that since it was a restaurant before it was a sporting good store it is not change of use. I wanted to smack his dentures out.
High Desert
Gold Member
Re: Change of uses
Jeff, I know that guy. Did he wear suspenders and chew tabacky?
Jeff, I know that guy. Did he wear suspenders and chew tabacky?
JBI
Registered User
Re: Change of uses
No do-overs, no backies!
The last recognized use is what it the occupancy class and review are based on.
Had an outdoor furniture mfr move their finishing operations out of their main building for about two years. When they wanted to move it back into the main building, it was reviewed as a new use of that space. Required rated seperations, opening protectives, sprinklers, the 'works'. They did try the old 'But it was here before' line. Sorry.
It was but once you moved it out YOU created the problem.
First 'tank & pump' sprinkler system I ever saw installed...
No do-overs, no backies!
The last recognized use is what it the occupancy class and review are based on.
Had an outdoor furniture mfr move their finishing operations out of their main building for about two years. When they wanted to move it back into the main building, it was reviewed as a new use of that space. Required rated seperations, opening protectives, sprinklers, the 'works'. They did try the old 'But it was here before' line. Sorry.
It was but once you moved it out YOU created the problem.
First 'tank & pump' sprinkler system I ever saw installed...
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Change of uses
Structures moved into or within the jurisdiction shall comply with the provisions of this code for new structures.
3410.4.1 Structural analysis.
The owner shall have a structural analysis of the existing building made to determine adequacy of structural systems for the proposed alteration, addition or change of occupancy. The existing building shall be capable of supporting the minimum load requirements of Chapter 16.
Most older wood buildings have no trouble meeting floor and roof loads, Seismic and wind might be difficult depending on your area. The question is how much analysis do you want. A signed sealed letter with some generic lanquage such as
"The existing building meets the minimum load requirements of Chapter 16"
or do you want a full set of calculations to go with it.
3408.1 Conformance.
Structures moved into or within the jurisdiction shall comply with the provisions of this code for new structures.
3410.4.1 Structural analysis.
The owner shall have a structural analysis of the existing building made to determine adequacy of structural systems for the proposed alteration, addition or change of occupancy. The existing building shall be capable of supporting the minimum load requirements of Chapter 16.
Most older wood buildings have no trouble meeting floor and roof loads, Seismic and wind might be difficult depending on your area. The question is how much analysis do you want. A signed sealed letter with some generic lanquage such as
"The existing building meets the minimum load requirements of Chapter 16"
or do you want a full set of calculations to go with it.
fatboy
Administrator
Re: Change of uses
New occupancy, comply with new code, plus as stated before, moved building on top of that. Go back to go, do not collect your $200.
Our Planning/Zoning requires that if it has been unoccupied for six months, it loses it's previous occupancy classification. Must comply with their requirements for new. Makes it a bit easier to apply life/safety requirements from the newer codes.
New occupancy, comply with new code, plus as stated before, moved building on top of that. Go back to go, do not collect your $200.
Our Planning/Zoning requires that if it has been unoccupied for six months, it loses it's previous occupancy classification. Must comply with their requirements for new. Makes it a bit easier to apply life/safety requirements from the newer codes.
Re: Change of uses
Well I went down to look at this project yesterday. They definetly have some issues. I dont think the floor joist will be a problem but the beams, bearing points and accesibility are going to be issues. I'll have to wait and see what the official use is before making a decision. Thanks to all who provided input.
Well I went down to look at this project yesterday. They definetly have some issues. I dont think the floor joist will be a problem but the beams, bearing points and accesibility are going to be issues. I'll have to wait and see what the official use is before making a decision. Thanks to all who provided input.
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
Re: Change of uses
Even if it was a restaurant and they apply for a permit for alterations they have to prove to me that they had a C.O. for a restaurant. If they can't locate any previous C.O. or inspections by the state L&I (who was supposed to do inspections before) it is a change of use. The local governments have only been made by the state (PA) to enforce the code for the last 6 years and have no records on anything before that.
Even if it was a restaurant and they apply for a permit for alterations they have to prove to me that they had a C.O. for a restaurant. If they can't locate any previous C.O. or inspections by the state L&I (who was supposed to do inspections before) it is a change of use. The local governments have only been made by the state (PA) to enforce the code for the last 6 years and have no records on anything before that.
Re: Change of uses
green,
Your description makes it sound to me like there should be some structural analysis done.
Around here we have a lot of old Type III buildings whose brick/mortar joints are pulverizing and falling out like hourglass sand.
Serious restorations have included inserting new steel structure inside the old brick, but leaving the brick exposed for the historic character.
I have one in this town that the owner threw up his hands and walked away when I insisted on engineering. Now the building stands empty.
green,
Your description makes it sound to me like there should be some structural analysis done.
Around here we have a lot of old Type III buildings whose brick/mortar joints are pulverizing and falling out like hourglass sand.
Serious restorations have included inserting new steel structure inside the old brick, but leaving the brick exposed for the historic character.
I have one in this town that the owner threw up his hands and walked away when I insisted on engineering. Now the building stands empty.