• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Code violations on inherited property

S

Stoland

Registered User
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
4
Location
LA
I know very very little about real estate and building codes but now find myself in the middle of some issues.....

I inherited a property that has been in my family since the late 60's and was built in the 50's. The property happens to be where the entrance to the old Van Nuys Ranch was (only stating this as someone said there was a possibility of it being historic)

The property has a single family home and detached in-law quarters that has been on the property since before my grandfather purchased it in the 60's, and I am told that it originally was a ranch hand quarters back in the day.

The city is claiming there is no permit for the detached structure/in-law quarters and we are faced with the price of tearing it down or updating it, both of which are expensive.

Im just looking for some advice on where to look so I can make sure they're not trying to take advantage of me. Even if the truth is there is no way around this.

some other notes:

In the 80's the property was split in two (we still own both properties) and another single family home was permitted to be built there. Wouldn't the building code/permit office have noticed the detached structure/ in-law quarters at this time if it was not supposed to be there?

I also have paperwork from the department of building and safety from when they checked the property after the '94 earth quake... shouldn't they have noticed the structure then? There were no violations/issues reported on the structure in the paperwork so Im assuming at that date, it was up to code then....

Is there a statute of limitations on permits and codes? I have proof dating as far back as the 60's that the structure has been there, does this help?..



Thank you for any help
 
Also someone mentioned to me that many years back, a two structures could have been considered one structure if it was connected by an overhang.... is this possible?
 
So what do the tax records say??

Have taxes been paid on the structure

City water, sewer, electricity to it as in bills paid.
 
“””The city is claiming there is no permit for the detached structure/in-law quarters and we are faced with the price of tearing it down or updating it, both of which are expensive.”””


They have a permit system that goes back that far???

Yea right
 
Any surveys or similar

Or when the new house was built , showing the structure


When did someone live in it last ????
 
So what do they want done to it??

What stirred up the city?? To get to this point.
 
Im not sure how to tell if taxes have been paid on the structure, as its on the same property (attached by an overhang) as the main house (we'll call this house A), and the property tax bill does not tell me that. But, I do have parcel maps dating back to 1971 showing the in-laws quarters. As well, the parcel maps used to build the house in the 80's on the lot next to it (we'll call this one house B) have the structure shown. As well, I have papers from the 80's showing when the sewer lines were re-done, that the structure was there. As far as utility bills, it uses the same power, water and gas as house A, so all the bills are for both house A and the in-law quarters structure. Sorry if this was confusing.


As for why it was brought to the city's attention, a backstory...

House A was my grandfathers home. He used to use the in-laws quarters for friends who came to town. He split the lot, and built house B in the 80's for my parents when they got married. My grandfather passed in '95 and my parents began to rent out house A and the in-laws quarters to my fathers childhood friend. This friend, rented out house A, while himself living in the in-laws quarters. Fast forward, this family friend (who was at all of our holiday events and was treated as part of our family) and my father had a small falling out, nothing bad, he still continued to rent the in-laws quarters but stopped renting house A. (I believe this was over financial hardship). So my parents found tenants for house A. In 2016 my father passed away suddenly at 61. This family friend, who knew my dad 50+ years, did not attend his funeral (this was his choice.) My mother took over dealing with the tenants from here on. The tenants of house A complained, with email proof, of the family friend invading their privacy and looking into their windows. My mom warned him several times before deciding to evict him. At this point, mid 2016, my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. The family friend threatened to sue my mom, and said he would report her for building violations like the structure being too close to house B's garage. She didn't back down, and he attempted to sue her. All the while my sister and I caring for my mother who was at home in hospice care. The situation was all settled in march 2017 and he vacated. My mother passed April 2017 at 61 years old. The properties now belong to my sister and I - were both under 30, and inexperienced with so much of this.... Fast forward, December 2017, we have tenants happily in house A and my husband uses the in-laws quarters for his office. He gets a knock on the door from building code officer and he said that the paperwork had just gone through from when the family friend reported the building a year ago. And here we are... Thats why it got noticed.

Im sorry for the lengthy response but it just really puts the situation into perspective.
 
windows lowered, they say the structure is too close to the garage of house B (which was built in the 80's), some of the ceiling beams are not up to code, issues with some walls.

Im not super versed in what exactly the violations are, we hired an architect and structural engineer to help with that... but they havent helped looking into the legal side like if we do have a permit that we cant find, or if it only needs to be up to code of a certain year, ect.
 
Hummmm

Not sure who should handle some of this??

Maybe real estate attorney

A suggestion is do not let them in the house any more.

Normally if a structure met code when it was built, it is allowed to remain as is.

Plus, when the newer house was built with a permit, it sounds like the existing building was shown on a site plan. If so and no comment was made of Building to close,, sounds like the city needs to get lost.


The city needs to back up everything they are asking with code sections and or ordinances.
Get copies of them and see what they say.
Make sure the city is not making things up or reading requirements wrong.


Sounds like the city is messing with you in some aspects.

They city should have an appeals process,, use it if it comes to pushing to much.

Plus sometimes getting a sympathetic counsel person on your side helps
 
Talk to the Building Official (guy in charge) in your City first. Find out exactly what records they have, exactly what they say the problems are and what they want you to "fix". Take all of your records along - if you can "prove" to him that this structure has been there for longer than they have records, then he should dismiss that part of the case.

If it goes further than that - do you have a lawyer? I dislike lawyers, but you'll be better off hiring one..

The City is trying to prove something (I'm guessing) they don't have records for. Have your lawyer use that in the appeal process. Sounds like you have sufficient evidence to prove the existence of the structure beyond whatever records the City is going to have.

Caveat: If this is simple Property Maintenance code issues (sounds like just structural issues with ceilings/walls) then fix them and roll on. If the PM code violations are remedied, then the City may be more amenable to resolving the "unpermitted structure" issue.
 
Contact the property appraisers office (tax assessor) and ask them what year each structure came on the tax roll. This will give you the year the structure was built and a code cycle to use to prove the structure is in compliance even it it does not meet current city regulations. Next file a freedom of information request for all records pertaining to the two properties, permits, plans, inspections, complaints, etc. Now you have the time frame when the structures where built and the applicable code to use to determine if the structures are code compliant. Find out what the retention requirements are for keeping public records with regards to building permits and plans. Ask if they follow the requirements and if they have ever purged old records from their files. Basically you are doing the leg work for the attorney

In my state I am required to keep commercial plans/records for the life of the building. One and two family dwellings I have to keep for five years, we keep them for ten before we purge the plans. The actual permit and inspection records we keep indefinitely. We also had a flood where we lost 6 years worth of records.

Do not take their word that they have no record of you buildings, make them prove it and why they have none. It could be their fault or there simply are none.
 
I would add: Research the city codes including zoning regulations and the years the City revised them. They may have added some new restrictions that the BI's trying to enforce.

In Conarb's day's (along time ago in a far away land) they sometimes would build a breezeway structure from the house to the accessory building, maybe that tie has been severed.

Then again maybe your relatives didn't pull a permit for the secondary building and your the one that just now got caught. There's a lot of people driving 35 in a 25 mph zone and breaking the law, because a city did't catch it till now should't be a reason someone is allowed to continue with a non compliant issue.
 
Pcinspector1 said:
I would add: Research the city codes including zoning regulations and the years the City revised them. They may have added some new restrictions that the BI's trying to enforce.

In Conarb's day's (along time ago in a far away land) they sometimes would build a breezeway structure from the house to the accessory building, maybe that tie has been severed.

Then again maybe your relatives didn't pull a permit for the secondary building and your the one that just now got caught. There's a lot of people driving 35 in a 25 mph zone and breaking the law, because a city did't catch it till now should't be a reason someone is allowed to continue with a non compliant issue.
Click to expand...


Agree but also what was the practice of the city building dept, then??
 
I'm very sorry for your loss and the challenging situation you are in now.

As other have said, getting the actual description from the tax assessment office would be the easiest way to prove the age of the building. Those parcel maps are excellent evidence as well.

It may be very challenging to provide them an actual date or year of when the structure was built, but you can likely give them an approximate time frame.

I do questions the qualifications of an inspector who would be unable to visually identify a building constructed in the 50s and not recently...

The other question is if all they have is a complaint about the structure. If they have no proof they may not be able to do anything anyway.
 
You should also look for aerial picture resources.

The city may have some aerial shots, over the years.

Also, I would think you or family have some personal pictures, going back years, that can support the building being there for sometime.
 
cda said:
You should also look for aerial picture resources.

The city may have some aerial shots, over the years.

Also, I would think you or family have some personal pictures, going back years, that can support the building being there for sometime.
Click to expand...

Following up on CDA...Google Earth has a "historical imagery" button which is amazing...you can see aerial photos of many areas all the way back to turn of the century. You may find one with the breezeway connecting the two buildings. Also...I had a relative in a similar situation...red tagged for an accessory structure the city had no record for (a neighbor complaint brought attention to it). Turns out the structure's permit history was filed in the county (before the city became incorporated) so the city never knew of it. Once I showed them the county info, problem resolved itself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top