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Damaged I Joists because of drywall removal

N

ntas

Registered User
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Messages
14
Location
Redmond
Hi, I have a drywall on the ceiling of my garage removed by PuroClean, a preferred vendor from my insurance. The contractor cut too deep in the I joists (7 joists continuously). I think they used recipient saw. I am concerning about the strength of the joists and the whole floor structure as above it, it's a kitchen, a high traffic area and two more stories. Any recommendations on fixing it? Any side effect of the incident such as void the joist warranty, reduce the house value or potential structure damage. Many thanks.
Photos:
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That is serious damage. The first two pictures show about a third of the chord cut through. The last picture shows the chord nearly severed. Were it mine to deal with, I would require an engineer to assess the damage and design a fix. Having seen just three pictures and not knowing the full extent of the situation, my immediate thought is that this might not be safe to occupy.

Notice the might and don’t jump off the deep end until an engineer….or at least the local building inspector has looked at this. An engineer can design temporary shoring while the repairs are made.
 
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ICE said:
That is serious damage. The first two pictures show about a third of the chord cut through. The last picture shows the chord nearly severed. Were it mine to deal with, I would require an engineer to assess the damage and design a fix. Having seen just three pictures and not knowing the full extent of the situation, my immediate thought is that this might not be safe to occupy.

Notice the might and don’t jump off the deep end until an engineer….or at least the local building inspector has looked at this. An engineer can design temporary shoring while the repairs are made.
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That's bad, at first I thought they cut only 1 or 2 but turned out they cut 7 of them continuously.
 
ntas said:
That's bad, at first I thought they cut only 1 or 2 but turned out they cut 7 of them continuously.
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Whether they cut one or two….a third of the chord or all the way….. an engineered fix is required. I have seen damaged trusses repaired but there are limits as to what an engineer will assume responsibility for.
 
Good news is … it was done by a preferred contractor recommended by your insurance company. Inwould contact your agent, send pictures, and ask them how they plan to return the joists to proper condition.
 
e hilton said:
Good news is … it was done by a preferred contractor recommended by your insurance company. Inwould contact your agent, send pictures, and ask them how they plan to return the joists to proper condition.
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Yeah, I asked my adjuster. They said I can use my contractor who will do the water damage restoration to fix it. Would it be OK to do so or let the insurance take care of the process of putting back the joists to proper condition?
 
ntas said:
They said I can use my contractor who will do the water damage restoration to fix it.
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Thats only half the answer. Has the insurance guy agreed to have all the corrective work paid for by either the first contractor or insurance? Is the second part of the work going to affect your policy, because you are filing a second claim? Typically a contractor is allowed an opportunity to repair their mistakes … are they willing to give up that choice?
 
e hilton said:
Thats only half the answer. Has the insurance guy agreed to have all the corrective work paid for by either the first contractor or insurance? Is the second part of the work going to affect your policy, because you are filing a second claim? Typically a contractor is allowed an opportunity to repair their mistakes … are they willing to give up that choice?
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The situation is a bit complex as PuroClean, the contractor cut the ceiling told me to let my contractor, who is going to restore the house from water damage mitigation (removal) done by PuroClean. I'm hesitant to do so because I feel like there could be liability mixed up here. I talked to Safeco adjuster, he came and did some measurements and told me that they will take a look at the measurement and probably send a structure engineer to evaluate and propose the solution. The point of who is going to fix the issue is unclear now. And you raised a good point if it needs to be a second claim, I would avoid that as it will increase my premium like a lot. Any suggestions on this case?
 
The restoration contractor caused the damage and as such is responsible for the repair. In light of what they have done so far, I would be hesitant to allow them on the property. An engineer is an absolute requirement. Get everything written in a contract.
 
When the engineer in there, ask him if you should install temporary support for the cut joists.

I agree that Puroclean probably should not be allowed back in the house, but they need to pay the full cost of correcting the problem. In my experience, I had to approve the payment from the insurance company to the contractor. Don’t agree to it, hold back the money.
 
ICE said:
The restoration contractor caused the damage and as such is responsible for the repair. In light of what they have done so far, I would be hesitant to allow them on the property. An engineer is an absolute requirement. Get everything written in a contract.
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Hi ICE, what do you mean by "get everything written in a contract"? I actually don't have any contract with PuroClean as they are the appointed people of the insurance to do the water damage mitigation. Do you contract with structure engineer? PuroClean owner just called me and ask for coming to check the joists should I let him check them? Thanks.
 
e hilton said:
When the engineer in there, ask him if you should install temporary support for the cut joists.

I agree that Puroclean probably should not be allowed back in the house, but they need to pay the full cost of correcting the problem. In my experience, I had to approve the payment from the insurance company to the contractor. Don’t agree to it, hold back the money.
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Hi can you elaborate more on "the payment from the insurance to the contractor"? By contractor, do you mean PuroClean or contractor who will fix the joists problem here? In my case, PuroClean did ask me to sign on agreement to let them do the job in my house when the incident happens. Just wonder why I should not agree to it and hold back the money, at that point there is no money/ estimation available?
 
You should hold all payments to puroclean until the damages are repaired. If you pay them now, they will walk away and you will have no leverage to get the damages repaired.

No reason to keep the puroclean guy from looking at the damages, just make sure you are with him at all times. He probably wants to take pictures so he can reply to th3 insurance company.
 
ntas said:
Hi ICE, what do you mean by "get everything written in a contract"? I actually don't have any contract with PuroClean as they are the appointed people of the insurance to do the water damage mitigation. Do you contract with structure engineer? PuroClean owner just called me and ask for coming to check the joists should I let him check them? Thanks.
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Get PuroClean to acknowledge that the damage was done by one of their employees in writing. Include a statement that they take full responsibility with a plan of action to repair the damaged trusses. An email should be sufficient.

It is possible that PuroClean has employees that are capable of performing the repairs....but hey now, the person that cut the trusses must have never operated a sawzall before getting to you. It is obvious when the blade encounters more than drywall and he just kept on going. Where he went all the way through the truss the web is cut as well. Or perhaps he was an experienced guy and decided to screw the company.

Whatever you do requires documentation. It is important to not delay. The repair will be at the direction of an engineer but will not be complicated.
 
If you do not have a contract with the contractor, who do they have a contract with? If the insurance company tell the insurance company, they need to fix it and need to provide an engineer's report and obtain a building permit for the repair.

There is a common problem with some contractors, often plumbers, that like to use chain saws and sawzall's without regards to the structural considerations.

This is a serious problem and should be addressed promptly.

While a building inspector should appreciate that there is a problem any fix will require an engineer.
 
Rick18071 said:
Make sure they get a permit and inspections from your local government. The inspector will make sure it's done right.
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How can I make sure that? Currently, from @Joe.B contact, BC company sent someone to measure the cuts and they will run analysis software to produce a proposed fix. Right now I have some questions:
- Do the contractor who will fix the joist issue need to have a permit from local government (city) to address the fix?
- Should I let PuroClean to fix it or ask them to hire someone else? I want them to hire someone else as I absolutely don't trust their work quality anymore.
 
ntas said:
How can I make sure that? Currently, from @Joe.B contact, BC company sent someone to measure the cuts and they will run analysis software to produce a proposed fix. Right now I have some questions:
- Do the contractor who will fix the joist issue need to have a permit from local government (city) to address the fix?
- Should I let PuroClean to fix it or ask them to hire someone else? I want them to hire someone else as I absolutely don't trust their work quality anymore.
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Call your local government and ask if a permit is required for structure alterations. In most cases it will be required. As the owner you are legally responsible.
 
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