Exiting through a mercantile storeroom

[Simonsays]

2009 IBC (similar to 2006 IBC), Section 1014.2 #4, exception 2, (allowing egress through a Group M stockroom if the following is met) item 2.1: "The stock is of the same hazard classification as that found in the main retail area."

Clear enough? But what if the stock is consistently stacked higher than 12 feet and the storeroom then enters the realm of high-pile storage? Thoughts?

 

[steveray]

WATCH THIS ONE THOUGH......

1104.3 Connected spaces.

When a building, or portion of a building, is required to be accessible, an accessible route shall be provided to each portion of the building, to accessible building entrances connecting accessible pedestrian walkways and the public way. Where only one accessible route is provided, the accessible route shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, restrooms, closets or similar spaces.

Exceptions:

1. In assembly areas with fixed seating required to be accessible, an accessible route shall not be required to serve fixed seating where wheelchair spaces or designated aisle seats required to be on an accessible route are not provided.

2. Accessible routes shall not be required to mezzanines provided that the building or facility has no more than one story, or where multiple stories are not connected by an accessible route as permitted by Section 1104.4.

3. A single accessible route is permitted to pass through a kitchen or storage room in an accessible dwelling unit.

 

[mark handler]

In my opinion, high-pile storage is not the same hazard classification.

It is usually a higher hazard classification.

Why do you think They dedicated so many pages and sections to it.

 

[cda]

Sam's ??? Lowes??? Other similar high piled stock retail stores ???

 

[fatboy]

I agree with where Mark is going, if you don't have high pile in the M area, then in the S area you get into high pile, then it is an increased hazard.

 

[cda]

"""stock is of the same hazard classification as that found in the main retail area."

so are they stocking different items in the storeroom than in the retail area??? is that where they keep the gasoline??

what makes a high piled tock area any different than the retail? they are storing the same stuff just higher??

 

[mark handler]

......just higher??

Higher, is, more hazarous.

 

[cda]

Higher, is, more hazarous.

QUE???

Because it will hurt more when it falls on your head.

if we are talking commodity class, than it should be the same commodity class as in the retail area.

 

[mark handler]

Yes a ton of feathers 12 feet above your head is more hazardous than a ton of feathers on the floor

 

[mtlogcabin]

Yes a ton of feathers 12 feet above your head is more hazardous than a ton of feathers on the floor

It is still a ton that may fall on your head

 

[mark handler]

It is still a ton that may fall on your head

Not if it is on the floor

High pile storage is a higher hazard than low storage

 

[cda]

Ok I will stay out of bed bath and beyond from now on

But the ""stock"" is the same hazard commodity classification

 

[mark handler]

I'm sure they will be happy to hear that

 

[north star]

+ + +

FWIW, I too vote that it is an increased hazard.......For my simple mind,

more of a commodity DOES mean a higher hazard, and moreso if it is

consistently stacked / stored above the 12 ft. threshhold......People have

done and continue to do, very strange things when "it has hit the fan"

and they are searching for the closest way out.

+ + +

 

[fatboy]

If it was not a higher hazard, there would not be specific requirements for high piled storage..............

 

[steveray]

I agree with the others above about the high piled being more hazardous and with similar logic......more = more danger......1 gallon of gas vs. 1000,........100 cardboard boxes vs. 10,000.....

 

[Simonsays]

Thanks to all.

So a reasonable approach to permitting egress through the stockroom is to stack the displays in the sales area to above 12 feet and sprinkle the entire building as a high-ple storage facility.

 

[cda]

You. Got it reverse code logic

Or stack in store room to 11' 11" !!!! Than the dog food at that hieght won't be as dangerous as the dog food at 12' 1"

Sorry for the thread rant working five days this week instead of four

 

[mtlogcabin]

It is a greater hazard with regards to fire in the high piled storage area but not for exiting.

If you follow the IFC I believe it is permissible

2301.4 Evacuation plan.

When required by the fire code official , an evacuation plan for public accessible areas and a separate set of plans indicating location and width of aisles , location of exits , exit access doors, exit signs, height of storage, and locations of hazardous materials shall be submitted at the time of permit application for review and approval. Following approval of the plans, a copy of the approved plans shall be maintained on the premises in an approved location.

 

[cda]

finaly a convert, must have to work friday also.

also, if you look at the some of the other requirements of the section:::

44 inch full or partial hieght wall to seperate the stock area form the exit!!

2. Means of egress are not prohibited through

stockrooms in Group M occupancies when all

of the following are met:

2.1. The stock is of the same hazard classification

as that found in the main retail

area;

2.2. Not more than 50 percent of the exit

access is through the stockroom;

2.3. The stockroom is not subject to locking

from the egress side; and

2.4. There is a demarcated, minimum

44-inch-wide (1118 mm) aisle defined

by full- or partial-height fixed walls or

similar construction that will maintain

the required width and lead directly

from the retail area to the exit without

obstructions.

YOU all are going to drive me to singing Queen songs::: my amercian idol tape

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/us/2012/03/29/pkg-moos-dashcam-rhapsody.cnn

 

[ICE]

I'm guessing that when the exception was written, the realization that there may be high pile storage didn't elude the thinkers behind the exception.

 

[High Desert]

I believe the intent of that section is to make sure that they are not storing commodities in the in the stock area that are different than those in the main occupancy. The code only states that "the stock is of the same hazard clasification," not whether it's high-piled or not. Chapter 23 of the fire code does not even mention hazard classification.

At the final action hearings in Detroit in 2005, it was approved by the membership based on the commodities stored, not the classification of high-piled storage.

 

[High Desert]

ICE, you are absolutely right. I was at both the Cincinnati and Detroit hearings when this was proposed. I believe someone spoke about high-piled storage, but the committe did not think it would be an issue since they most likely had a higher level of sprinkler protection in the stock room.

 

[brudgers]

If it was not a higher hazard, there would not be specific requirements for high piled storage..............

Likewise, shingles and BUR are different hazards because the code contains different requirements. Steel and concrete.

MR and normal gypsum.

etc.

IF SHE WEIGHS THE SAME AS A DUCK, SHE'S A WITCH