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Fire Sprinkler for A Duplex?

E

EastPhilly189

Registered User
Joined
Apr 24, 2021
Messages
13
Location
Philadelphia
Hi all,

Recently purchased a duplex in Philly and was asked by the city department of license & permits to install a fire sprinkler system since i received a variance to change the use from a single family (RS5) to a duplex.

"In accordance with Section 1011.2.1 of the 2018 IEBC, a fire suppression system is required for a complete change of occupancy to an R-3 occupancy. Please confirm the building will be sprinklered, on the plans."

My duplex is only 1,600 sq ft and and two stories tall in a mainly residential area. Is there anyway to go around installing a fire sprinkler? I rather have people come and make the walls from 1 hour to 2 hours fire which i think is a lot less expensive and time consuming than sprinkers.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
 
Welcome

Would have to see the entire code language, to see if there are any exceptions

Can you copy and paste or post a link.
 
I’ve never worked in Philadelphia, so check me on this. The cited section in the IEBC refers to fire protection as required by IBC but a duplex is regulated by the residential code. Philadelphia‘s residential code deletes R313.2, which is the sprinkler requirement. See the code here -

codelibrary.amlegal.com

SECTION R313 AUTOMATIC FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet
codelibrary.amlegal.com
 
310.4 Residential Group R-3

Residential Group R-3 occupancies where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as Group R-1, R-2, R-4 or I, including:

Is it a zoning issue??

Seems like a single family house and duplex are R-3???
 
SH225 said:
I’ve never worked in Philadelphia, so check me on this. The cited section in the IEBC refers to fire protection as required by IBC but a duplex is regulated by the residential code. Philadelphia‘s residential code deletes R313.2, which is the sprinkler requirement. See the code here -

codelibrary.amlegal.com

SECTION R313 AUTOMATIC FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet
codelibrary.amlegal.com
Click to expand...
Does that mean, my
cda said:
So what occupancy type was it originally and what is will it be ??
Click to expand...
cda said:
310.4 Residential Group R-3

Residential Group R-3 occupancies where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as Group R-1, R-2, R-4 or I, including:

Is it a zoning issue??

Seems like a single family house and duplex are R-3???
Click to expand...
 
cda said:
So what occupancy type was it originally and what is will it be ??
Click to expand...

It was a single family RS5 occupancy and now a 2-family occupancy with a R-3 identifier. I am planning to rent both of the units.

SH225 said:
I’ve never worked in Philadelphia, so check me on this. The cited section in the IEBC refers to fire protection as required by IBC but a duplex is regulated by the residential code. Philadelphia‘s residential code deletes R313.2, which is the sprinkler requirement. See the code here -

codelibrary.amlegal.com

SECTION R313 AUTOMATIC FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet
codelibrary.amlegal.com
Click to expand...

Does that mean it is exempt from the sprinkler requirement?


cda said:
310.4 Residential Group R-3

Residential Group R-3 occupancies where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as Group R-1, R-2, R-4 or I, including:

Is it a zoning issue??

Seems like a single family house and duplex are R-3???
Click to expand...

What does it mean by "Primarily permanent in nature?
This is the city examiner's response
"The reason we are asking for structure to be sprinklered is because it is going from IRC R-3, to IBC R-3, which requires sprinklers, since it is a complete change of occupancy."
 
EastPhilly189 said:
Does that mean it is exempt from the sprinkler requirement?
Click to expand...
From what is published online, it appears to be exempt. Section R-R101.2 indicates a two-family dwelling is covered by Philadelphia Residential Code (IRC as amended) rather than IBC. Maybe I am missing something. The scope of the residential code is described here -

codelibrary.amlegal.com

SECTION R-R101 TITLE, SCOPE AND PURPOSE

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet
codelibrary.amlegal.com
 
SH225 said:
From what is published online, it appears to be exempt. Section R-R101.2 indicates a two-family dwelling is covered by Philadelphia Residential Code (IRC as amended) rather than IBC. Maybe I am missing something. The scope of the residential code is described here -

codelibrary.amlegal.com

SECTION R-R101 TITLE, SCOPE AND PURPOSE

Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet
codelibrary.amlegal.com
Click to expand...
I'm puzzled too.
I believe IBC is more for commercial properties than a residential duplex? but both my lawyer and the city examiner is saying that it want from IRC to IBC because of a "complete change of occupancy".

The cost of Fire Sprinkler and adding another hour of fire wall is just too much of a difference for me right now.
 
EastPhilly189 said:
I'm puzzled too.
I believe IBC is more for commercial properties than a residential duplex? but both my lawyer and the city examiner is saying that it want from IRC to IBC because of a "complete change of occupancy".

The cost of Fire Sprinkler and adding another hour of fire wall is just too much of a difference for me right now.
Click to expand...

Don’t think there is anything in IRC, that says a house can’t be occupied by owner or rented out???

Might find a good building consultant in your area to advise you and if needed be your mouth piece in front of the city.,

Well worth the money spent
 
Should not be a change of occupancy.

It was is detached one and two family dwelling now and it still will be a detached one and two family dwelling when done. Should be under the IRC. Sprinklers not required in PA.
 
Thanks All for your response.

Apparently the city is very difficult to reach to and they are very adamant about their interpretation of it.
Seems like i need to install the Sprinklers.
 
Did you have plans drafted? I've seen things submitted here that could have (or should have) used the residential code (CRC here) but the drafter used the building code (CBC) for no good reason that I could see. Plans get reviewed based on information received. If your plans reference IBC (or local equivalent) then that's how they will review it. Change to IRC and resubmit.
 
Thanks Joe,
Yes, we've included our plans in the submission. and Lo and behold, I did asked my architect on why he used IBC and the answer was that
"IRC is for residential construction (typically single family houses). IBC is for commercial but also includes multifamily residential (duplex and larger). The plan reviewer is reviewing the project per the IBC code."

I paid him for his expertise so i did not question any further on it.
 
EastPhilly189 said:
Thanks Joe,
Yes, we've included our plans in the submission. and Lo and behold, I did asked my architect on why he used IBC and the answer was that
"IRC is for residential construction (typically single family houses). IBC is for commercial but also includes multifamily residential (duplex and larger). The plan reviewer is reviewing the project per the IBC code."
I paid him for his expertise so i did not question any further on it.
Click to expand...

Get you box of cracker jacks back...

Hire a true code consultant. Let them look at the project.

If they deem no sprinklers required

Submit revised plans with explanation

Plus if needed the code consultant can be your mouth piece in front of the city

Good money well spent
 
EastPhilly189 said:
Thanks Joe,
Yes, we've included our plans in the submission. and Lo and behold, I did asked my architect on why he used IBC and the answer was that
"IRC is for residential construction (typically single family houses). IBC is for commercial but also includes multifamily residential (duplex and larger). The plan reviewer is reviewing the project per the IBC code."

I paid him for his expertise so i did not question any further on it.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately many highly skilled Architects/Engineers/Drafters do not pay as much attention to these kind of details. Often they just copy/paste from another project they've done to save time. Since you've already paid them, simply ask them to change to the IRC and resubmit. Make sure that they update cited code references to match IRC instead of IBC.
 
Hmmm although we have already submitted our plans with a footnote that a sprinkler system will be installed
and City approved and gave me the certificate of Occupancy. I can still go back and resubmit again? or should i just forget about installing and move on.
Not even sure if i'll get inspected or not though.
 
If you already received an approval (or certificate of occupancy) than you're at risk of losing it if you don't follow through. Or worse if a fire happens there could be some BIG liability issues. If you want to avoid the sprinklers you would need to resubmit new plans and get the approval.
 
Thanks Joe!
At this point of going back and forth between me and City Examiner. Honestly realized the importance of having the right experienced team.
Both my lawyer and Architect are pushing me to "just accept, install the sprinklers, and move on".
But its just pain in the butt since it's taking the city such a long time to approve the permit to install it. I'm look at couple of months of vacancy on my investment.

On the bright side, i guess having a sprinkler system gets me better insurance rate, up the value of the house, and better for the future residents.
 
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