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Fire Sprinklers in Roof Eave

Discussion in 'Commercial Fire Codes' started by TWS2189, Dec 2, 2019.

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  1. TWS2189

    TWS2189 Registered User

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    Hi All,

    I have a project made of combustible material and we are providing sprinklers in the building. We are needing to comply with NFPA 13 2010 edition. It is a one story building however we have a high roof and a low roof. The high roof has an eave greater than 4' and it is over the lower roof. The lower roof is sprinklered below. The area below the high roof 4' eave is not habitable. Will our 4' overhang be required to have sprinklers?



    Thank you
     
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    What type of occupancy??

    Any floor plan you could link a post to?
     
  3. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I am thinking the answer is no


    “”
    “””The lower roof is sprinklered below. “””

    inside or out???
     
  4. TWS2189

    TWS2189 Registered User

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    Occupancy is A-2 and this is all outside space.
     
  5. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    Need to meet the following items to be excluded. Note that this is for within soffits/eaves/overhangs.

    NFPA13-2010
    8.15.1.2.18

    Sprinklers shall be permitted to be omitted from within combustible soffits, eaves, overhangs, and decorative frame elements that are constructed in accordance with 8.15.1.2.18.1 through 8.15.1.2.18.4.

    8.15.1.2.18.1
    Combustible soffits, eaves, overhangs, and decorative frame elements shall not exceed 4 ft 0 in. (1.2 m) in width.

    8.15.1.2.18.2
    Combustible soffits, eaves, overhangs, and decorative frame elements shall be draftstopped, with a material equivalent to that of the soffit, into volumes not exceeding 160 ft3 (4.5 m3).

    8.15.1.2.18.3
    Combustible soffits, eaves, overhangs, and decorative frame elements shall be separated from the interior of the building by walls or roofs of noncombustible or limited-combustible construction.

    8.15.1.2.18.4
    Combustible soffits, eaves, overhangs, and decorative frame elements shall have no openings or unprotected penetrations directly into the building.
     
  6. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I still think no

    a floor plan would help
     
  7. TWS2189

    TWS2189 Registered User

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    I dont seem to be able to upload a plan... I'm new to the forum so maybe i'm missing something.
     
  8. TWS2189

    TWS2189 Registered User

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    Here is a link to an image with a roof condition similar to the one I have. The image is of a house but the project in question is commercial. Imagine if the eave of the taller roof projecting over the lower roof is more than 4'.

    [​IMG]

    https://images.app.goo.gl/xJwXMhojPzPamRSA6
     
  9. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    TY j has the answer correct, meet all the requirements and you can omit sprinklers, excede or do not compete the blocking and you have to sprinkle. sid wall sprinkler would work
     
  10. TWS2189

    TWS2189 Registered User

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    TY j's post brought up a good point about us needing to sprinkle within the eave. However my original question is regarding the underside of an eave over a lower roof.
     
  11. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Yep either pay to be a sawhorse and you can upload with no problem

    or make the floor plan a link and post the link

    I still say no not required.

    To me it is not a horizontal projection

    The lower level is already protected also.
     
  12. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    yes the attic will require protection

    And if eaves “inside” also, if they do not meet an area not requiring sprinklers. But not outside
     
  13. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I think I asked before what do you do for a living??
     
  14. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    from the 2007 handbook

    upload_2019-12-3_8-49-11.png upload_2019-12-3_9-12-8.png upload_2019-12-3_8-36-28.png
     
  15. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    Ok, after a bit more research, here is how to treat areas under eaves.

    Be non-combustible (8.15.7.2), clad with non-combustible (8.15.7.3), an exterior corridor (8.15.7.4) or no storage of combustibles below (8.15.7.5).

    My approach would be via the final option, 8.15.7.5. If it is truly a roof under another roof, their should be no fire load or storage below. Therefore, although you will have a roof projection greater than 2-ft, no combustible storage occurs below, thereby not meeting the full conditions of 8.15.7.5. Sprinklers may be exempted from underside of eaves (may still be required within the eave as per my prior post).

    8.15.7 * Exterior Roofs, Canopies, Porte-Cocheres, Balconies, Decks, or Similar Projections.
    8.15.7.1

    Unless the requirements of 8.15.7.2, 8.15.7.3, or 8.15.7.4 are met, sprinklers shall be installed under exterior roofs, canopies, porte-cocheres, balconies, decks, or similar projections exceeding 4 ft (1.2 m) in width.

    8.15.7.2 *
    Sprinklers shall be permitted to be omitted where the canopies, roofs, porte-cocheres, balconies, decks, or similar projections are constructed with materials that are noncombustible, limited-combustible, or fire retardant–treated wood as defined in NFPA 703, Standard for Fire Retardant–Treated Wood and Fire-Retardant Coatings for Building Materials.

    8.15.7.3
    Sprinklers shall be permitted to be omitted from below the canopies, roofs, porte-cocheres, balconies, decks, or similar projections of combustible construction, provided the exposed finish material on the roofs, canopies, or porte-cocheres are noncombustible, limited-combustible, or fire retardant–treated wood as defined in NFPA 703, Standard for Fire Retardant–Treated Wood and Fire-Retardant Coatings for Building Materials, and the roofs, canopies, or porte-cocheres contain only sprinklered concealed spaces or any of the following unsprinklered combustible concealed spaces:

    1. Combustible concealed spaces filled entirely with noncombustible insulation
    2. Light or ordinary hazard occupancies where noncombustible or limited-combustible ceilings are directly attached to the bottom of solid wood joists so as to create enclosed joist spaces 160 ft3 (4.5 m3) or less in volume, including space below insulation that is laid directly on top or within the ceiling joists in an otherwise sprinklered attic [see 11.2.3.1.4(4)(d)]
    3. Concealed spaces over isolated small roofs, canopies, or porte-cocheres not exceeding 55 ft2 (5.1 m2) in area
    8.15.7.4
    Sprinklers shall be permitted to be omitted from exterior exit corridors when the exterior walls of the corridor are at least 50 percent open and when the corridor is entirely of noncombustible construction.

    8.15.7.5 *
    Sprinklers shall be installed under roofs, canopies, porte-cocheres, balconies, decks, or similar projections greater than 2 ft (0.6 m) wide over areas where combustibles are stored.
     
  16. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Once a floor plan is posted,,,

    It should show sprinklers not required
     
  17. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    Floor plan wont do us any good.... Need a roof plan.
     
  18. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    We need some type of plan,,,

    The Russians don’t go to McDonalds without a plan!!
     
  19. TWS2189

    TWS2189 Registered User

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  20. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    I was afraid of that, flat roofs (on which flammable material can collect).
     

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