German Architect gets One Year for death of fire fighter

[conarb]

Insurance companies normally are not responsible when the homeowner is knowing negligent.

Insurance is for liability caused by negligence, "knowing" is not involved, this is tort law the difference is "intentional" as opposed to "unintentional". If I knowingly drive 100 MPH down the street and unintentionally kill someone my insurance will pay a judgment against me, but if I drive 100 MPH to intentionally kill someone and do kill him they will not pay. Becker's insurance apparently has paid because he didn't intentionally violate the code to burn his house down, he violated the code apparently to save money (or get the architectural effect he wanted), the burning and death were unintentional on his part.

 

[mark handler]

Time and time again Insurance companies have NOT paid for illegal additions and modifications to houses . Should a fire or flood occur in an area of unpermitted work and the insurer figures that out, it probably will not pay. I actually have that clause in my homeowners policy.

 

[jar546]

German Architect gets One Year for death of fire fighter

I've done work for some insurance companies just for that reason to research requirements in order to deny a claim. They are getting smarter about this because it's worth it for them to pay me

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ICE]

And just so you know, the collapse was because of water build up in the joist bays. the water was from the sprinkler system, held in place by the visqueen vapor barrier....

Now that I know....it seems odd that the focus is on the fire pit....and how did such thing as smothered sprinkler heads get approved? How was the ceiling constructed that the finish material didn't let go before the structure failed? The house is 12,000 sq. ft.....were all of the heads similarly compromised?

If in fact that is what happened, the jurisdiction is starting out in a hole. If one approaches this rationally, the architect must be fourth or more in line as to responsibility for a sprinkler system.

 

[mark handler]

Now that I know....it seems odd that the focus is on the fire pit....and how did such thing as smothered sprinkler heads get approved? How was the ceiling constructed that the finish material didn't let go before the structure failed? The house is 12,000 sq. ft.....were all of the heads similarly compromised? If in fact that is what happened, the jurisdiction is starting out in a hole. If one approaches this rationally, the architect must be fourth or more in line as to responsibility for a sprinkler system.

Based on the report I read, the fire was caused by the illegal fireplace, it burned through the plastic sprinkler pipe, which intern, filled the joist bays, the fire fighters were inside the building then the joists failed.

But like I said before, it is no different than a drunk diver....

 

[ICE]

Alright Mark, I concede. Not only didn't I know most of the details, I set out to be contrary.

Becker sold the property for a 2.5 million dollar profit. Strip him of what's left and make him walk back to Germany.

 

[conarb]

But like I said before, it is no different than a drunk diver....

And drunk drivers damages are covered all the time by their insurance policies.

Let's not loose sight of the real problem here, the plastic sprinkler pipes melting flooding the ceiling structure causing the collapse causing the death. Absent the plastic pipes it would have been an ordinary fire, the ceiling wouldn't have collapsed from the weight of the water and the fireman wouldn't have been killed. At law this is a "Concurrent Cause" issue:

Concurrent causes. Where two separate acts of negligence combine to cause an injury to a third party, each actor is liable. For example, a construction worker negligently leaves the cover off a manhole, and a careless driver negligently clips a pedestrian, forcing the pedestrian to fall into the open manhole. Both the construction worker and the careless driver are equally liable for the injury to the pedestrian. This example obeys the but for test. The injury could have been avoided by the elimination of either act of negligence, thus each is a but for cause of the injury.²

Absent the plastic pipe melting there would have been no ceiling collapse, absent the fire there would have been no plastic melting.

The fire began in the top-floor fireplace shortly after a certificate of occupancy had been issued, investigators said. As the fire raged through the 12,000-square-foot house, a plastic sprinkler pipe melted, filling the false ceiling made of drywall and wood with water and causing it to collapse and crush the veteran firefighter as he was fighting the flames. Chain saws had to be used to free him from the debris.¹

This reminds me of the case of the home in the Seattle area where plastic sprinkler lines were run to the back of the home and a sprinkler head was placed over a barbecue, there was a fire in the barbecue and water never got to the head in the back because the plastic pipe melted over the entry flooding the home. Why isn't this a wake up call to require all sprinkler lines to be black iron pipe like they used to be before the plastic/chemical industry's money bought approvals?

Of course we don't know the whole story, we only know what we read, but I don't see evidence that the fireplaces were installed after final inspection, I do see evidence that Becker did give orders to reinstall the same fireplaces when he rebuilt the home for sale.

Carney noted that when the house was being reconstructed, Becker gave orders for the same fireplaces to be installed after the building inspection was completed. ¹

For all we know Becker may have tried to reinstall them meeting all codes, other than the manufacturer's installation instructions to only install them outdoors, including black iron sprinkler pipe during the reconstruction. From a legal standpoint the proximate cause of death was the collapse of the ceiling, not the fire.

¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_24842766/architect-pleads-no-contest-la-fireman-death?IADID=Search-www.contracostatimes.com-www.contracostatimes.com

² http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_cause

 

[cda]

Now that I know....it seems odd that the focus is on the fire pit....and how did such thing as smothered sprinkler heads get approved? How was the ceiling constructed that the finish material didn't let go before the structure failed? The house is 12,000 sq. ft.....were all of the heads similarly compromised? If in fact that is what happened, the jurisdiction is starting out in a hole. If one approaches this rationally, the architect must be fourth or more in line as to responsibility for a sprinkler system.

"""Now that I know....it seems odd that the focus is on the fire pit....and how did such thing as smothered sprinkler heads get approved""""

Where do the smothered heads come from??

What is a smothered head ??

 

[ICE]

What is a smothered head ??

Oh I'm not at all sure that I can answer that.

 

[cda]

Oh I'm not at all sure that I can answer that.

I briefed the thread , but did not see " smothered" mentioned

Where did I miss it ?

 

[Frank]

If I remember correctly the inspectors ordered the fireplaces removed they were then reinstalled after final inspections were approved.

Prosecutors allege Becker told a city building inspector that he didn’t plan to build any fireplaces in his three-story, 12,000-square-foot hillside house. But authorities say he did so anyway after the final inspection in November 2010.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-german-architect-sentenced-20140103,0,4315131.story#ixzz2pd9OVSSd

 

[97catintenn]

Becker sold the property for a 2.5 million dollar profit. Strip him of what's left and make him walk back to Germany.

I don't understand how believable the whole story is now. We have a guy that built a house and received his final and COA. Moves in and installs an outdoor fireplace inside of his home. Fireplace catches fire, ceiling calapses and kills a fireman.

House is sold for a 2.5 million dollar profit.

Make sense?

 

[ICE]

I don't think any of us knows the whole story.

 

[conarb]

I don't think any of us knows the whole story.

And we are not going to know since the DA and the Building Department are both divisions of the same County and they don't want to expose the County to liability if the whole story was told in court.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

An interesting lesson can be learned from this. Tangentially.

At some point it was decided residential sprinklers were a good thing. Then at some point it was lobbied to have them mandated. Somewhere along the time line it was discovered to be cost prohibitive to install the robust reliable system of iron pipe and sprinklers, and utilize the skilled labor required for installation. For the sprinkler industry to keep it viable the system had to be cheapened and the labor to install it had to be downgraded. The end result is the mere shadow of the system we know as sprinklers. What we are left with is a glorified landscaping irrigation system installed by the skill level to match.

The solar industry is on a parallel course to match; Only decreased quality product coupled with low-priced labor (and insane government subsidies) keep this public darling sailing along.

Is it SO important to have mandated crap product when it obviously is not the robust reliable system "sold" at the onset?

Brent

 

[mtlogcabin]

I just wonder if this had been an 1,800 sq ft house and a homeowner without an architects degree did the same thing and a fire resulted in a death if the charges would be the same.

Just because the guy is an "Architect" does not mean he is knowledgeable about building and fire codes. How much code training does an architect get during their 4 years of college or even during their AIT time? I bet there is no minimum requirement.

 

[mark handler]

I just wonder if this had been an 1,800 sq ft house and a homeowner without an architects degree did the same thing and a fire resulted in a death if the charges would be the same.Just because the guy is an "Architect" does not mean he is knowledgeable about building and fire codes. How much code training does an architect get during their 4 years of college or even during their AIT time? I bet there is no minimum requirement.

Not licensed, in state....He is only licensed in Germany

Another Unlicensed individual, endangering others lives

 

[mtlogcabin]

I don't care if he is licensed or not from anywhere. He has an education and a degree in architecture and that is what all the news articles focused on. My questions was would he have been treated differently if he did not have an education and degree in architecture.

A license by a government is usually little more than a tax or administrative fee to regulate an individual.

 

[conarb]

There is also the issue that may, or may not come into play, as to whether the sprinkler lines were installed by a licensed certified C16 contractor. In California all sprinkler systems not only must be installed by licensed C16 contractors but all employees must be state certified, it's a 5 year apprenticeship program and quite extensive.

Program The Apprenticeship program is a five (5) year program. Apprentices must work a total of 8000 hours in five (5) years to reach journeylevel status. Apprentices are required to attend related instruction classes a minimum of 144 hours per year at the J.A.C. Training.¹

Mandatory Residential Fire Sprinklers Beginning January 1, 2011, an automatic fire sprinkler system will be mandatory in all new one and two-family dwellings throughout the state. In line with the 2009 International Building, Fire and Residential Code, this change comes from modifications to the California Building Code through the State Building Standards Commission. "A" General Engineering, "B" General Building, C-36 Plumbing contractors need to be aware that only the C-16 Fire Protection classification is legally permitted to lay out, fabricate or install fire protection systems. Other trades can provide work up to the fire protection system only, regardless of whether the fire protection system is combined or stand-alone.²

This is going nationwide, from Washington State:

In Washington State, any person performing installation, alteration, and or repairing a fire protection sprinkler system, standpipe, hose, or an assembly of sprinkler piping, or any such system must be certified as competent by the Washington State Fire Marshal’s Office.³

A question we don't know is whether the plans called for the fire pit devices and if so if the sprinkler lines were routed around the flues and approved by the fire marshal, I recall once building a cafeteria addition to an Oakland school, the black iron pipe wasn't routed around the the cooking range, the fire marshal made them rip it put and re-rout the piping, and that was black iron pipe and not plastic pipe. As the judge said there were lots or problems here and I suspect the DA wanted a quick and easy deal with Becker taking all liability rather than dumping comparative liability on a variety of County agencies.

¹ http://www.calapprenticeship.org/programs/sprinkler_apprenticeship.php

² http://www.cslb.ca.gov/GeneralInformation/Newsroom/IndustryBulletins/IndustryBulletins2010/IndustryBulletin20101231.asp

³ http://www.wsp.wa.gov/fire/sprinkler_fit.htm

 

[sergoodo]

Thoughts:

-Life safety of occupants- did all occupants survive...

-definition of fireplace - permit actually needed...

-alternative use of manufactured products - can be a crime...

Tragic loss of life, sad, shows how hard to blame stupid.

 

[conarb]

Tragic loss of life, sad, shows how hard to blame stupid.

I think one of the "stupids" here is the code allowing plastic pipe.