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Ground rod distance from foundation?

SCBO1

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Is there a code section that can be cited for how far the grounding rod can be from the foundation, I always thought it was 2-ft. I got a project where it's 7-ft out from the foundation and have a concern it could be severed.

Please reference a code number if you could. I'm hanging may hat on "I'm the AHJ!" Afraid I might have to eat that hat.:eek:
 
Are they running the wire underground to the rod??

Installed or proposed?

Some reason they will not play nice and move it??
 
cda,
Installed with wire under the ground to the rod 7-ft out from foundation. Said it was a "mother" getting it driven into the soil. Claimed they will have to buy another rod. It daisy chained with the first rod whit-in 2-ft of the foundation.
 
They need to be 6' apart (or technically maybe the length of the rod.) Nothing on proximity of building....And if they hit footing steel, they don't need the rods....GEC is continuous from panel to rod to rod? No breaks?
 
“”””Itdaisy chained with the first rod whit-in 2-ft of the foundation.”””

It is or they would have to if another one is required??
 
Sorry for the typo's, a typist or a piano player I'm not!

So do you think just being the AHJ is enough to declare the rod at 7-feet out from the house is a bit to far and the GW is endanger of being severed by a mower?

Rick18071, That's different question but thank you for your response, that there's nothing regulating the distance from the foundation. I can't find any thing but a codes class book that sez: "It's a good practice" to keep the rod around 2-ft of the foundation on a residential service.
 
The entire GEC requires protection from physical damage. If the rod is sticking out of the ground it must be free from exposure to physical damage. So if it is accessible it is susceptible.
 
Is it possible that the inspector is imposing his preferences as opposed to what the code says?

While grounding may be more effective is the several ground rods are properly spaced what is critical is the resistance. If only one ground rod is needed then the fact that two are provided close together is irrelevant.
 
a. Where protected by a ferrous metal raceway, grounding electrode conductors shall be electrically bonded to the ferrous metal raceway at both ends.
b. An 8 AWG grounding electrode conductor shall be protected with rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride (Type PVC)
nonmetallic conduit, rigid thermosetting resin (Type RTRC) nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing or cable armor.
c. Where not protected, 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor shall closely follow a structural surface for physical protection. The supports shall be spaced not
more than 24 inches on center and shall be within 12 inches of any enclosure or termination.
d. Where the sole grounding electrode system is a ground rod or pipe as covered in Section E3608.2, the grounding electrode conductor shall not be required to
be larger than 6 AWG copper or 4 AWG aluminum. Where the sole grounding electrode system is the footing steel as covered in Section E3608.1.2, the
grounding electrode conductor shall not be required to be larger than 4 AWG copper conductor.
 
E3610.2 Securing and protection against physical damage.
Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its
enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it
is carried. Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted
to be installed on or through framing members. A 4 AWG or
larger conductor shall be protected where exposed to physical
damage. A 6 AWG grounding conductor that is free from
exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run
along the surface of the building construction without metal
covering or protection where it is and securely fastened to the
construction; otherwise, it shall be in rigid metal conduit,
intermediate metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride (PVC),
nonmetallic conduit, reinforced thermosetting resin (RTRC)
nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing or cable armor.
Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be
in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl
chloride (PVC) nonmetallic conduit, reinforced thermoseting
resin (RTRC) nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic
tubing or cable armor.
Bare aluminum or copper-clad aluminum grounding electrode
conductors shall not be used where in direct contact
with masonry or the earth or where subject to corrosive conditions.
Where used outside, aluminum or copper-clad aluminum
grounding electrode conductors shall not be installed
within 18 inches (457 mm) of the earth.
 
Is it possible that the inspector is imposing his preferences as opposed to what the code says?
No, I will allow after the contractor covers with additional earth.

Did you provide a code? No. see the first post with the question?

Is there a code section that can be cited for how far the grounding rod can be from the foundation,

I'm looking for a distance from foundation, and it appears there is not one.

Sorry for being so curt.

Thanks for playing!
 
NEC 250.64 (B) provides securing and protection from physical damage for the grounding electrode conductor. This seems to be what most of these posts are geared to, but these do not appear to address the original concern. cda started down the right path, but the thread got sidetracked. What I read of the original concern is that a ground rod is seven feet from the structure; is this permitted, and how do I ensure that the grounding electrode conductor is protected between the house to the electrode connection (doesn't get severed)? That is covered (pun intended) in NEC Table 300.5. The grounding electrode conductor will be buried between the structure and the electrode connection, so Column 1, 2 or 3 would apply. The burial depth and method itself provides protection from physical damage between the structure and the electrode connection. Based on this, the electrode placement from the structure can be seven feet out or seventy feet out.
 
I believe it's a utility requirement here, our PG&E provives a handout showing the number and placement of ground rods for each address, the number is dependent upon soils, I built homes a mile apart, one required one ground rod and the other two, I called PG&E and they said it was due to a difference in soils and sent me diagrams that had placement on it.
 
Well, that's interesting ! The service providers around here want nothing to do with the grounding electrode systems, they regulate to the service point and that's it. What would PG&E say about this post? Would they permit the seven foot distance between structure and electrode along with providing requirements for the protection of the electrode conductor, or would they rely on NEC for all but the location and number of electrodes?
 
Well, that's interesting ! The service providers around here want nothing to do with the grounding electrode systems, they regulate to the service point and that's it. What would PG&E say about this post? Would they permit the seven foot distance between structure and electrode along with providing requirements for the protection of the electrode conductor, or would they rely on NEC for all but the location and number of electrodes?
I don't know, what I do know is PG&E has a map of ground conditions that they use to determine the number of rods needed, when you build a house and contact them they give you a one page handout, on that handout is a drawing showing the location of the ground rods. Why don't you contact the utility in question and ask them if they have such a handout?
 
While the information from the utility may be informative I would like to know the basis for any authority the utility has to regulate what gets done on the other side of the service point. I would suggest that they have no authority to compel.

On the other hand if the adopted electrical code has provisions defining the number of ground rods based on the soil type and if the utility recommendations were based on that criteria he information from the utility may help the builder understand what is required by the electrical code.
 
While the information from the utility may be informative I would like to know the basis for any authority the utility has to regulate what gets done on the other side of the service point. I would suggest that they have no authority to compel.

The utility requests a copy of the service clearance from the AHJ, then sends there own inspector out to check everything including grounding, I'd venture to say that the average inspector knows nothing about soils types and number of ground rods. For instance, on a remodel I recently had the PG&E require a larger ground cable from the ground rods to the service and larger conductors all the way to the pole on the street, that was after final inspection and a $35,000 additional cost because of jackhammering through sandstone to get a larger conduit under the driveway.
 
Conarb

You have described what the utility did, but it is still unclear what legal authority the utility had to require something beyond the service point.
 
Conarb

You have described what the utility did, but it is still unclear what legal authority the utility had to require something beyond the service point.

Mark:

They just don't give you service if you don't comply with their regulations, another example is they have regulations in their "Green Book" that describe the location of the main service, how far above the ground, how far from corners, how far from gas meters, etc., if you don't comply with their regulations they don't hook up your service, similarly the AHJ has no code regulations governing the location of meters.
 
NEC 250.64 (B) provides securing and protection from physical damage for the grounding electrode conductor. This seems to be what most of these posts are geared to, but these do not appear to address the original concern. cda started down the right path, but the thread got sidetracked. What I read of the original concern is that a ground rod is seven feet from the structure; is this permitted, and how do I ensure that the grounding electrode conductor is protected between the house to the electrode connection (doesn't get severed)? That is covered (pun intended) in NEC Table 300.5. The grounding electrode conductor will be buried between the structure and the electrode connection, so Column 1, 2 or 3 would apply. The burial depth and method itself provides protection from physical damage between the structure and the electrode connection. Based on this, the electrode placement from the structure can be seven feet out or seventy feet out.

300.5 (B) Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage.
Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it is carried. Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted to be installed on or through framing members. A 4 AWG or larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor shall be protected if exposed to physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection if it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be protected in rigid metal conduit RMC, intermediate metal conduit (IMC), rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing EMT, or cable armor. Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be protected in (RMC), IMC, PVC, RTRC, (EMT), or cable armor. Grounding electrode conductors and grounding electrode bonding jumpers shall not be required to comply with 300.5.

It is a misnomer to refer to a GEC as a conductor for the purpose of applying article 300.

Conductor, Covered. A conductor encased within material of composition or thickness that is not recognized by this Code as electrical insulation.
Conductor, Insulated. A conductor encased within material of composition and thickness that is recognized by this Code as electrical insulation.

Note that there are two types of conductor per the CEC....Covered and Insulated. There is no mention of a bare conductor. The use of the word conductor for EGC and GEC is a quirk and flaw built into the text of the CEC.

Grounding and bonding conductors are mentioned in article 300. Taken in context the reference is to wiring methods and not a GEC. Furthermore, article 300 makes no restrictions and sends one to article 250.
300.2(B)(2)
(2) Grounding and Bonding Conductors. Equipment grounding conductors shall be permitted to be installed outside a raceway or cable assembly where in accordance with the provisions of 250.130(C) for certain existing installations or in accordance with 250.134(B), Exception No. 2, for dc circuits. Equipment bonding conductors shall be permitted to be installed on the outside of raceways in accordance with 250.102(E).
 
Hunh....We do not have that yet....2017?
The bold type in ICE post is from 250.64 for protection where exposed; and would not need to comply with the burial depth of 300.5.

(B) Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage.
Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its enclosure
shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it is
carried. Grounding electrode conductors shall be permitted to
be installed on or through framing members. A 4 AWG or
larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor
shall be protected if exposed to physical damage. A 6 AWG
grounding electrode conductor that is free from exposure to
physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the smi'ace
of the building construction without metal covering or protection
if it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it
shall be protected in rigid metal conduit RMC, intermediate
metal conduit (TMC), rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC),
reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic
tubing EMT, or cable armor. Grounding electrode conductors
smaller than 6 A WG shall be protected in (RMC),
TMC, PVC, RTRC, (EMT) , or cable armor. Grounding electrode
conductors and grounding electrode bonding jumpers
shall not be required to comply with 300.5.
 
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