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High Rise Condo Accessibility

jar546

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A lobby of a condo has management offices, a security desk/area, the lobby itself with furniture, etc. The security desk in question handles all visitors coming in and out, including contractors, inspectors, delivery people, employees, etc. Apparently they do not believe that their building is required to comply with ADA so they had a law firm let us know with the following email:

Our firm represents ******** as its association counsel. I was hoping to get an opportunity to speak with you regarding the permit submitted by **********for work within the association lobby. Specifically, we were told that it was the City’s determination that certain portions of the FBC-Accessibility regulations (904.3.3 and 904.4.1) were applicable to the planned improvements.

Because ********Isle is a totally private residential condominium that does not hold itself open to public gatherings, allow access to the public or operate rentals services, ******* is not a place of public accommodation. As such, since the **********is a totally private residential community and the lobby is only utilized by its residents, ADA regulations would not apply to the improvements.

We are able to provide you with written verification from the association indicating that it is a fully private residential condominium or copies of the association documents
.
 
wow...wonder where they found that lawyer...guess they dont allow those handicap types to purchase condos in that building...
 
Jar
Do all exceptions to the Florida accessibility requirements still have to be done on the state level and not able to be "locally approved". That is the way it was when I was there when ADA was adopted as the accessibility code in the 90's.
If so send the letter to the state if not send it to the DOJ and FH for their approval. Guarantee he will be a busy well educated attorney when they are through with it.
 
Tell Mr Lawyer that you will be happy to discuss this, in their offices, and then when you are there you can do an accessibilty survey of their offices ...
 
A lobby of a condo has management offices, a security desk/area, the lobby itself with furniture, etc. The security desk in question handles all visitors coming in and out, including contractors, inspectors, delivery people, employees, etc. Apparently they do not believe that their building is required to comply with ADA so they had a law firm let us know with the following email:
mtlogcabin mentioned it in passing, the Fair Housing Laws still apply and As Builder Bob implied the ADA does apply to areas of guests.
Not the first Lawyer that got it wrong, Someone will sue, and they will loose.
 
Mark, I disagree that the presence of guests triggers ADA. Here's an excerpt from the FHA Design Manual, Part 2, Chapter 2/Requirement 2, available at https://www.huduser.gov/portal/publications/PDF/FAIRHOUSING/fairfull.pdf


IMPACT OF THE AMERICANS WITH
DISABILITIES ACT (ADA) ON PUBLIC
AND COMMON USE SPACES
The dwelling units of private multifamily housing
developments generally are not required to meet the
accessibility provisions of the Americans with
Disabilities Act Accessibility Guidelines (ADAAG).
However, some public and common use spaces such
as rental offices and sales offices are considered
“public accommodations” under Title III of the
ADA because, by their nature, they are open to
people other than residents and their guests
. They,
therefore, must comply with the ADA requirements
in addition to all applicable requirements of the Fair
Housing Act.
Other buildings and amenities in a housing
development, such as laundry buildings and recre
ational facilities (clubhouses, swimming pools, spas,
game rooms, and exercise rooms), will be covered
by the ADA only if they are available for use by
people other than residents and their guests
. If such
facilities are made available to the public only
periodically, such as for a festival or seasonal event,
they must comply with the ADA during the event.
Fortunately the ANSI and the ADAAG
have similar technical specifications for most
features. However, there are some differences in
scope and technical requirements. For example, the
ADAAG requires designated parking spaces for
vans. For more discussion of this, see page 2.20
“Access Aisles.” Since this document presents the
ANSI specifications cited in the Fair Housing Act,
the reader is advised to consult ADAAG only when
public and common use facilities are to be available
to the general public.
 
I also think that delivery people are a type of "guest" and the presence of a delivery person, utility meter reader, gardener or maintenance staff does not trigger ADA. Likewise the presence of a contractor or designer coming to visit the site does not trigger ADA. The place of business for such people is their own office.

A rental or sales office triggers ADA, because not there is a commercial transaction taking place onsite; it is a business office.
A desk for a security guard in the lobby might trigger ADA, if the guard is an employee of the condo association, and not just a visitor (police, etc.). On the other hand ADAS allows guard towers or raised guard/security areas to not be accessible.

Other than that, ADAS 203.8 says:
203.8 Residential Facilities. In residential facilities, common use areas that do not serve residential
dwelling units required to provide mobility features complying with 809.2 through 809.4 shall not be
required to comply with these requirements or to be on an accessible route.​

In other words, if you don't have ADA dwelling units at the condos, then the residential use is not triggering common areas to meet ADA. (But FHA will trigger common area accessibility.)
 
The dwelling units of private multifamily housing
developments generally are not required to meet the
accessibility provisions of the Americans with
Disabilities Act Accessibility Guidelines (ADAAG).

Thats very interesting. I could understand if it applied to owner-occupied housing, like my house, but multifamily for-profit housing? What happens when the current occupant moves out and a handicap person wants to move in.
 
Thats very interesting. I could understand if it applied to owner-occupied housing, like my house, but multifamily for-profit housing? What happens when the current occupant moves out and a handicap person wants to move in.
The public areas need to comply
The private areas, can be adapted as needed.

Just a side note, this does not apply in some states with other requirements, like CA.
CA does require, a certain number of condos or apartments, to be accessible.
https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-building-code-2016-v1/chapter/11A/housing-accessibility#11A
 
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Beware also of owners using their units as Air B &B's.

And MT need I remind you that ADA is not a code, it is a minimum legal standard.
 
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