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Hotel Electric Room

LGreene

LGreene

REGISTERED
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,166
Location
San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
I received an email today regarding an electric room in a hotel and what seems like a hazardous situation. As most of you know, my specialty is door openings, so I'm not as familiar with some of the other potential issues with this room. I would really appreciate it if you would check out the email and photos, and leave a comment on my blog or on the forum (or both) if you have something to say. I can post a link to this forum topic on my site so people will know to look here for more information.

http://idighardware.com/2012/03/wwyd-hotel-electric-room/
 
LGreene said:
I received an email today regarding an electric room in a hotel and what seems like a hazardous situation. As most of you know, my specialty is door openings, so I'm not as familiar with some of the other potential issues with this room. I would really appreciate it if you would check out the email and photos, and leave a comment on my blog or on the forum (or both) if you have something to say. I can post a link to this forum topic on my site so people will know to look here for more information.http://idighardware.com/2012/03/wwyd-hotel-electric-room/
Click to expand...
The storage of the oil in this room is crazy. As to the construction not much has changed since 2010.

http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?3412-Panic-Hardware-on-Electric-Rooms

Look at north stars response.
 
Boiler rooms, mechanical rooms, and electrical panel rooms shall not be used for storage of combustible material. NFPA 1: 10.20.2

It does not say flammable liquids
 
imhotep said:
The storage of the oil in this room is crazy. As to the construction not much has changed since 2010.http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?3412-Panic-Hardware-on-Electric-Rooms

Look at north stars response.
Click to expand...
2009 IBC

1008.1.10 Panic and fire exit hardware. Doors serving a Group H occupancy and doors serving rooms or spaces with an occupant load of 50 or more in a Group A or E occupancy shall not be provided with a latch or lock unless it is panic hardware or fire exit hardware.

Exception: A main exit of a Group A occupancy in compliance with Section 1008.1.9.3, Item 2.

Electrical rooms with equipment rated 1,200 amperes or more and over 6 feet (1829 mm) wide that contain overcurrent devices, switching devices or control devices with exit or exit access doors shall be equipped with panic hardware or fire exit hardware. The doors shall swing in the direction of egress travel.
 
imhotep said:
The storage of the oil in this room is crazy. As to the construction not much has changed since 2010.http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?3412-Panic-Hardware-on-Electric-Rooms

Look at north stars response.
Click to expand...
Just a forum shortcut. If you click on the post number on the upper right of the post you want members to read it will change the url address and move the thread to the top of the page viewed. Copy this URL address and then paste it in your post. It makes finding the post easier.

Like this http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?3412-Panic-Hardware-on-Electric-Rooms&p=34474&viewfull=1#post34474

Or you can hide it in words-- click here
 
Thanks for your responses. The forum topic that a couple of you referenced was specific to panic hardware on electric rooms. The questions sent in by the locksmith instructor were more about the rating of the walls, the door, the storage of the oil, the wall finish, etc. Since we (me and some of my blog readers) tend to be very focused on door openings, it's really helpful to us when you share your overall knowledge of the code requirements pertaining to the situation.
 
i worked as an electrician for over 15 years before moving into inspections, and worked as a carpenter/drywaller before that. the door should have a self closing device on it. the "backboards" as we called them (behind the panelbords) , in that electrical room should be frt plywood on 5/8 type x drywall. if the gear is rated over 1200 amps, a panic device is required. oils should not be stored in electrical rooms, just poor housekeeping practices. not sure what the fire code says about that, maybe someone can let us know. thanks
 
More than likely there is Sheetrock under the wood

Do not believe in this set up that the wood is not allowed

No the fuel should not be there, but small quantity and closed container. I would tell them to remove it

Yes door should have closer on it

More than likely the building is sprinkled
 
cda said:
Yes door should have closer on it.
Click to expand...
If the door is not required to be fire-rated, I don't know of a code requirement that would address the closer. We would specify a closer for this door because it is good practice, but if the code does not require it, there will be many doors like this one without a closer.
 
=

Good morning Door Guru Lori! :cool:

Is this Electric Room sprinkled?......Also, do you know the rating of

the largest [ amperage ] panelboard?

=
 
do we know if this place is in an incorporated city or a texas county area?

If city the corridor should carry at least 1/2 hour rating, with 20 minute doors per ibc

if county who knows

I thought there was a section that said you could do a dead bolt on an electrical room door, maybe not every electrical room door, and that would take away the closure requirement??? or was that jaintor rooms???

I know they are not trying to do that in this location
 
= =

Agree cda!......That door IS in a cmu wall.......Also, I did not see any

sprinkler heads in the room.

= =
 
Ok - I got some more info...

There are 3 sprinkler heads in the room. The hotel is located in a city in Texas. I have attached some photos showing what is in the room.

I guess my question would be whether the door to this room would need to be fire rated. I couldn't find anything in the IBC about it (if it's there, let me know!) so I checked the 2008 NEC and I found a couple of references to rated walls/doors:

110.31 (A) Fire Resistance of Electrical Vaults. The walls, roof, floors, and doorways of vaults containing conductors and equipment over 600 volts, nominal, shall be constructed of materials that have adequate structural strength for the conditions, with a minimum fire rating of 3 hours. The floors of vaults in contact with the earth shall be of concrete that is not less than 102 mm (4 in.) thick, but where the vault is constructed with a vacant space or other stories below it, the floor shall have adequate structural strength for the load imposed on it and a minimum fire resistance of 3 hours. For the purpose of this section, studs and wallboards shall not be considered acceptable.

450.21 Dry-Type Transformers Installed Indoors.

(B) Over 1121⁄2 kVA. Individual dry-type transformers of more than 1121⁄2 kVA rating shall be installed in a transformer room of fire-resistant construction. Unless specified otherwise in this article, the term fire resistant means a construction having a minimum fire rating of 1 hour.

Exception No. 1: Transformers with Class 155 or higher insulation systems and separated from combustible material by a fire-resistant, heat-insulating barrier or by not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) horizontally and 3.7 m (12 ft) vertically.

Exception No. 2: Transformers with Class 155 or higher insulation systems and completely enclosed except for ventilating openings.

Transformer Vaults:

450.43 Doorways. Vault doorways shall be protected in accordance with 450.43(A), (B), and ©.

(A) Type of Door. Each doorway leading into a vault from the building interior shall be provided with a tight-fitting door that has a minimum fire rating of 3 hours. The authority having jurisdiction shall be permitted to require such a door for an exterior wall opening where conditions warrant.

Exception: Where transformers are protected with automatic sprinkler, water spray, carbon dioxide, or halon, construction of 1-hour rating shall be permitted. FPN: For additional information, see NFPA 80-2007, Standard for Fire Doors and Other Opening Protectives.

(B) Sills. A door sill or curb that is of sufficient height to confine the oil from the largest transformer within the vault shall be provided, and in no case shall the height be less than 100 mm (4 in.).

© Locks. Doors shall be equipped with locks, and doors shall be kept locked, access being allowed only to qualified persons. Personnel doors shall swing out and be equipped with panic bars, pressure plates, or other devices that are normally latched but open under simple pressure.

III. Power Sources and Connection

708.20 Sources of Power.

(B) Fire Protection. Where located within a building, equipment for sources of power as described in 708.20(D) through (H) shall be installed either in spaces fully protected by approved automatic fire suppression systems (sprinklers, carbon dioxide systems, and so forth) or in spaces with a 1-hour fire rating.
 
= = =

Lori,

I would be surprised if the Fire Code Official [ FCO ] will allow the

sprinkler heads to remain in this electrical room......NFPA 13 will

require a [ minimum ] 2 hr. rating on this room "WHEN" the fire

sprinkler heads are removed.......It is to the advantage of the FCO

that will actually respond to a fire in this room, for there NOT

to have sprinkler heads that are / potentially could be activated

and mixing with the electricity.

Did you ever find out the voltages / amperages of the

transformers or the electrical panels in this room?.....Thanks!

From your information, ...the door may be the least of their

problems.

= = =
 
It worked! North Star - all the information I have is what is on the attached photo showing the labels on the equipment. I had to shrink it to be able to upload it, so if it's too small there's a bigger copy on my blog: http://idighardware.com/2012/03/wwyd-hotel-electric-room/

Can anyone translate the labels into layman's terms? Dumb question, but if each of the grey units is 480 volts, do you add the voltage together or just the amperage? I'm only using the information to determine the door rating per the NEC, so excuse my ignorance.
 
More than likely the room is part of a corridor

The corridor should carry a least 1/2 hour rating and the door at least 20 minute with closure per ibc
 
One question again is can the electrical room or say a janitor room just have a dead bolt lock on it, in lieu of a closure????
 
cda said:
One question again is can the electrical room or say a janitor room just have a dead bolt lock on it, in lieu of a closure????
Click to expand...
Unless there's something specific in the NEC that would require a closer on an electric room door, the only thing that would prompt a closer is if it's a fire door or smoke door.
 
I am wondering if this is the section some people use to allow a dead bolt only on a rated door, such as a janitors room , or maybe electrical room.

With the idea that maybe only one person will be going in and out of it, and they will have the key to lock and unclock it, but whne locked will still meet the latching section

715.3.7.1 Latch required. Un less otherwise specifically

permitted, single fire doors and both leaves of pairs of

side-hinged swinging fire doors shall be provided with

an active latch bolt that will secure the door when it is

closed.
 
+ + +

cda,

I do not believe that we have answered Lori's question yet,

of whether a fire door is actually required on this room.

Lori,

Do you have input with the FCO?.......If so, ask them if

they want the sprinkler heads to remain......If they allow

the sprinkler heads to remain, then they appear to be

compliant, except for the housekeeping of "stuff" in there.

Since we cannot determine the amperage of the largest

panelboard, ...for "assumption" purposes, I will assume

that there isn't something at least 1,200 amps. or larger

in one of the panelboards......Again, refer to NFPA 13,

Ch. 8:15.10.3.

If the FCO wants the sprinkler heads removed, then

that will be [ the latest buzz word - - - - > a "game-

changer" ].......Lots of variable here Lori......Recommend

that the FCO and / or BCO be brought in to the mix,

..."if" possible.

+ + +
 
The UL and WHI procedures for fire rated doors do not allow a deadlock only on rated doors.

This statement is accurate for the manufacturers I represent now, and all those I have represented in the past that I can recall. An inspector may allow it, but somebody (probably) violated a procedure somewhere to get a deadlock only on that door.

Deadlocks: I looked through all my appropriate catalogs, and I cannot find any that come out and say "U.L Listed 3 Hour Latch". A few of them say something like "U.L. Listed Fire Rated Auxiliary Lock".

A deadlock only in a fire rated door would be highly suspect.
 
north star said:
+ + +cda,

I do not believe that we have answered Lori's question yet,

of whether a fire door is actually required on this room.

Lori,

Do you have input with the FCO?.......If so, ask them if

they want the sprinkler heads to remain......If they allow

the sprinkler heads to remain, then they appear to be

compliant, except for the housekeeping of "stuff" in there.

Since we cannot determine the amperage of the largest

panelboard, ...for "assumption" purposes, I will assume

that there isn't something at least 1,200 amps. or larger

in one of the panelboards......Again, refer to NFPA 13,

Ch. 8:15.10.3.

If the FCO wants the sprinkler heads removed, then

that will be [ the latest buzz word - - - - > a "game-

changer" ].......Lots of variable here Lori......Recommend

that the FCO and / or BCO be brought in to the mix,

..."if" possible.

+ + +
Click to expand...
FROM THE OP ON LG's forum;;;

"""" This room is in the middle of the 3-story hotel that is surrounded on all four sides by a route of egress corridor that is shared with the rooms on that floor""""

This is my answer to the question::::

"""More than likely the room is part of a corridor/ attached to a corridor

The corridor should carry a least 1/2 hour rating and the door at least 20 minute with closure per ibc """"""""""
 
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