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Means of Egress

FM William Burns

FM William Burns

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Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
2,901
Location
The Mitten State
After reading all the various threads and responses/interpretations on “Means of Egress” I thought it would be a great idea to develop an affordable 4 to 8 hour class on the topic and take it on the road (target audience are newer inspectors). I instruct the 101 portion of this topic for the inspector certification program and see the need to have it as a separate training opportunity to offer. Both codes would be explored for the instruction.

Show of hands if you think it’s a good endeavor but I won’t go into further details due to propriety reasons.
 
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Oh, and business owners (blocking the means of egress, but "still maintaining 36" path)....wait, whut? LOL
 
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FM,



Great idea!

How far "on the road" are you going to go?....locally, ...statewide,

...regionally, ...one coast line or the other, ...wherever The Money

Train takes you, ...The 2011 & 2012 FMWB MOE World Tour? :D

$ $ $ $
 
Great Idea

What I notice inspectors miss the most on finals are exit light placement and viewing distance requirements. Once the owner installed items go in they interfere with the signs. Or they are mounted to high or to low and are blocked by soffits and shelving
 
Just a small thing I have observed, most BO's who get this wriong DO NOT and WILL NOT post on these boards. They don't like other's opinions. Kinda makes me laugh.

I love you guys.
 
I have taken Means of Egress classes from top notch instructors and it is truly valuable to anyone dealing with commercial work. It would be extremely valuable to have an affordable class for inspectors and BOs to attend. My Fire Marshal and I have almost daily discussions on MOE [he is relatively new to the FM position; about 3 years] and it is most helpful to recall main points from training to help him. So the questions are as NorthStar asked: how far afield are you going to take your class? and additionally: will the class be reasonably priced? It's the economy, you know.
 
Gang,



I would travel coast to coast and depending on the arrangement with a site coordinator or host organization with a minimum attendance required to offset my expenses; the costs could vary somewhat. I would like to keep my flat rate for instruction at $25/$45 per 8 hour course depending on the arrangement (travel, lodging, venue and break) costs.



Serving varying organizations and being involved with training for many years; one of the biggest issues I have is the high cost of classes or instructors nationally. I would like to retire from the fire service after (27 years) and just want to make a comfortable living passing on what I have received. I am also developing basic to intermediate level courses for:



Inspecting Fire Alarm and Detection Technologies

Inspecting Fire Suppression Technologies

The Nuts and Bolts of being a Jurisdictional Inspector

MT,

Amen and lets not forget the banners and contrasting colors that create visual obstruction in larger mercantile occupancies :)
 
Before setting your rates, we at Oregon Fire Equipment Distributors have seen asking rates of $1000.00 to $2000.00 a day + travel expenses for our speakers.

my costs to attend classes have varied from $.00 a day to $150.00 per day

Off topic, but not by much

http://www.nfsa.org/cgi-bin/readstory.cgi?type=news&record=701

There was also a post about a Judge in Mass? involving non-payment in resturant with a non-UL 300 fire system. The insurance company was not required to pay the claim because the resturant had been issued several notifications about the lack of a UL 300 system. Maybe I can find the post.
 
FG,

Thanks for the heads up and those topics in your related link and topic reference are exactly some of the issues I bring up personally and have for years on inspection tours with responsible parties or after inspection interviews since I also believe every inspection interview is a teachable moment. Regarding the fees for my instruction; I've been involved with and the procurement of instructors for many years and have seen the heavy hitters come and go. All the more reason to provide quality training at an affordable price for host agancies and groups. My partner and I believe in paying it forward and personally, I only want to make enough to cover my expenses and earn a decent living with travel about 180 days per year.

I hope readers will not interpret my plan or inquiry in a judgmental manner since we are good quality professional instructors with many positive evaluations over the years for our content and delivery. After working in the service for 27 years I believe I found my secondary niche and plan to dive in very soon.
 
I am on the Board of Directors of the Idaho Association of Building Officials and the Education Committee for same. One of the things we struggle with is the cost of instructors who are really good instructors. Upwards of $2K per day for some. Topics are also a limiting factor. I'm going to PM you with the name of the Educatio Committee Chair so you can chat with him about topics and costs. Can you be ready to teach in January of 2012? That's our next Education Institute in Idaho Falls. We are contemplating a fire track. I you know your stuff, can handle the hecklers and the questions, then you'll be worth your weight to any group who needs training. You are contemplating the same thing I am... offer your knowledge at an affordable cost and do something for the good of the order! I applaud you!
 
I'm sorry, but $2000 a day for an instructor is ridiculous. Unfortunately, if you develop your own courses, you are not really getting paid for that, which may attribute to why some instructors charge so much more. If someone really has a passion for what they teach, they make the best instructors. I also teach and charge in the same neighborhood as FM. I do it because I want to. Yes, I have to earn a living, but I'd rather do it doing something I love then being stuck in a miserable job.
 
Thanks Carol and I got the PM. I could probably put something together for 1/12 and I'll get with your contact. I'm not worried about hecklers since I'm bigger than most of them :) I also do an electronic plan review class for cheapskates. Being in the fire service has taught me how develop things on a zero budget :(

CG,

Yes, it is a lot of work developing classes but like you it's worth it and something I enjoy. If I can impact the future of my business and allow others to not go through the crap I had to just because I put forth the effort its a win/win. Heck, I don't blame the "G" men on how much they can earn but I can instruct just as well, make people laugh and offer great actual world content. I love seeing big name instructors use stuff I told them around the dinner table during a conference or committee meeting and working an entire 8 hour session out of it. It's sort of like comedy...I had so much material......
 
When I was Assistant Chief and Training Officer, I figured that to give a quality class on basic fire fighter stuff like ladders, ropes and how to get the truck to show water, 2 hours of prep for 1 hour of class. What I really liked was to have someone else volunteer to teach a class. Some of hte guys found how much fun teaching was and how much you learned about a subject. And you can see how some people, like FM Bill and the Door Lady have a passion for spreading the knowledge.

The last class I sent one of my guys to cost me about $500.00, not including lost income for his time. But, he came back with enough knowledge so the next kitchen suppression install he will do the whole job from layout to the final inspection. And, the increased confidence he has is priceless.
 
And, the increased confidence he has is priceless.
Click to expand...
Exactly FG! Classes I teach are designerd for others to copy and use to share with other members/personel in in-house training sessions. All the reasons why I share the experience and I love the fact that our newer BO is learning how to manuever through the life safety aspects of the codes we share in enforcement. I'm not concerned with someone replacing me just that when the time comes, I'll know that that person can handle the influence of outside pressure to maintain the intent and integrity of what is written in the documents we are obligated to enforce. Despite what others may charge, for me it's about sharring and passing on knowledge at an affordable price to attendees or organizations....period. No attitude involved just what I know to be right in this time and world we have to live in. I once said on here or maybe the aformentioned site....some may call me cocky but most who know me call it confidence ;) I'm looking forward to the new adventure and maybe we can get others to recoginize the importance of quaility auditing and inspection of fire protection features and systems.

Rjj, this may be the only way for me to come to PA and learn how to catch those Rocks you rave about.......the extra days will be on me :)
 
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FMWB,



Do you have a web site up & running yet, ...for info, ...pricing,

...scheduling, ...credentials, ...other, ...etc.?



& & & &
 
NS,

We do not have a website to date and I'm in the process of course development on (5) 8hr. classes since I wanted to add a fire investigation piece. I will send you a PM with a link to my credentials. When completed with the courses, advertisement package and research in gaining ICC, AIA and NFPA/IFMA accreditation for CEP's I will go "nationwide" with advertisement to specific organizations and check with Jeff (this site admin) on formal advertisement here. I'm a type "A" and have to have everything just in place before making the leap.
 
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